Episode 201: Kingdom Principles, Corporate Impact: Jesus’ Influence on Business

—————————–

Today Counts Show Episode 201

Preview

Jim: And I’m telling you that it was just so convicting. And if anybody wants to be a leader and they think that I’m just being religious in what I’m saying, I really challenge them to read the teachings of Jesus and tell yourself what kind of a leader you would be if you actually did what Jesus said.

Appreciation of our Supporters

Winston: Hey, before we jump into the podcast, we want to thank all our donors and supporters who make the Today Count Show possible. It’s through your generosity that we’re able to shape leaders through this content and this podcast. Be sure to like, subscribe, and follow wherever you find yourself coming across this content. All right, let’s get to the podcast.

Introduction

Jim: Welcome back to the Today Count Show. I’m your host, Jim Piper. Today I have as my guest Dr. Daniel Tatia. Did I get that right?

Daniel: Tataje.

Jim: I didn’t get it right. Tatahi. I’ve been delighted to meet Daniel, learn a little bit more about him, and do some research on him. This is a podcast about leadership. It’s a podcast about business. It’s a podcast about faith. The way that I always say it is we integrate business, psychology, theology, and philosophy. We integrate all those things together because they’re important tools for us as human beings, and particularly those of us who are leaders and say that we care about people even more than our product. So welcome, Daniel. Glad to have you with us.

Daniel: Likewise, I’m super excited to be here and have been looking forward to this conversation for a long time. I’m happy that the day is here.

From Peru to Wisconsin: Dr. Tataje’s Journey to Dentistry

Jim: Well, you have an interesting story. You are a businessman. You are a dentist by schooling and by practice, at least at one point during your life. You’re an author, and you are and you are becoming a leader with influence not only where you live, but because of technology now, it can spread much farther than where we– You know technology. It has its good and its bad. After you and I get done, I have another podcast today where we’re going to be talking about the pros and cons of artificial intelligence, and I’m looking forward to that as well.

So, you went to dental school. Let’s start there. What caused you to move in that direction? Actually, let’s back up even before that. If I remember right, you’re originally from Peru. Is that correct?

Daniel: That’s right.

From Peru to Purpose: The Early Dream

Jim: Okay. So why don’t we start from there? Peru. How did Peru lead to dental school? Now you live in Wisconsin. What does that look like?

Daniel: Yeah. It’s a long story, but it’s funny how, if you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans. That’s exactly what it is. My plans were not how I ended up in Wisconsin. It’s a long story, but I was always passionate about dentistry. I love dentistry because we combine science and art to improve someone’s life or function. It’s fascinating to me. When I went to dental school, I fell even more in love with it, knowing and actually doing the cases and the fact that we could take someone out of pain right away using our knowledge and our hands.

But beyond that, I always was very attracted to the personal relationships that we build in dentistry. We see people over time, and you build relationships with families. They bring their family members, and it becomes a personal relationship over time, which is beautiful.

A Detour That Became Destiny

How did I end up in Wisconsin? It’s a long story. First, I came to the US for school. I always wanted to go back to Peru to practice dentistry there. But during my time here, I met my wife. Then I decided to stay another year. Then we got married, and I ended up settling here. We moved out to Wisconsin 20 years ago, mainly because my wife grew up in Florida, in the Miami area, and she didn’t want to raise a family in a large city. So we were looking for a place to settle up north.

At the time, I had some family here. My sister was in Madison, Wisconsin. So we came to check it out. We loved it. When we came to visit, it was not winter, so we made that decision without knowing. But it’s good. No regrets. Twenty years later, this is home for us, and it’s been such a blessing being here.

Jim: Good. My wife and I have two different views about dentists. I’m very grateful for a dentist to do what you said earlier, relieve my pain. I am fascinated by how quickly a dentist can turn your pain into relief. That’s always been amazing. But other than that, I do my best to avoid your kind. My wife, on the other hand, just loves it. She’d be there every month if it was up to her, getting her teeth cleaned. So we have different views.

In fact, she’s always told me that if she knew a little bit more about the opportunities, she kind of wishes she would have become a dentist.

Transitioning to CEO: Mission Over Private Equity

But you’re not practicing dentistry anymore. You still have a practice. How did you go from practicing dentistry to being the CEO of something that goes beyond one location?

When Dentistry Becomes Corporate

Daniel: Yeah, it was part of a decision I had to make. I love dentistry. I love the clinical aspect of dentistry. It’s very difficult to do both. What I wanted to create, I basically started the business out of frustration seeing how dentistry was becoming more investor-backed and more about the business and less about the people. I saw how big corporations were coming and acquiring small practices and changing dentistry.

Jim: Are you talking mostly about private equity?

Daniel: Yeah, private equity. They’re not all bad. Of course, there are some great groups, and I know some of the leaders in the industry. But the majority of transactions were very cold and were changing dentistry. What I wanted to do was to do something different, just try to preserve dentistry. So I started a small DSO, which at the beginning, my goal was to make one practice great. Then that led to another practice and another practice. We acquired 17 practices in nine years.

Jim: Wow.

Building a Different Kind of DSO

Daniel: My goal is to still be a DSO, but we are family-owned. We try to preserve our independence so we can continue to do dentistry the way we do it. We see dentistry as a tool.  That’s what we do. We use dentistry as an instrument to improve the lives of people, not only with our dentistry, but with our other talents, like listening to the patient, building relationships, and seeing people as gifts. We can talk more about that.

Beyond a Conversation About Teeth

Jim: Before you and I started recording this podcast, I think it was on our telephone call earlier when we were working to see if this would be something good for you and for our listeners, and we agreed that it would be. You talked a lot about some things that really interested me. One of the things you were concerned about is that people would see this as a conversation with a dentist, and that this conversation is going to go much higher and deeper and wider than dentistry. Making that point, you’ve already said a mouthful. I took notes as fast as I could. I already have questions for you.

When you said “difficult to do both,” I assume what you meant was not only working with patients but also leading these practices where you would want them to go. You’re either doing one or you’re doing the other. You didn’t say this, but I think what I heard is that they both deserve a full-time effort.

Then you transitioned into this idea that you didn’t like what you were seeing in the dental movement. Frankly, we could probably say that in a lot of different types of applications, not just dentistry. I have a lot of clients who would say something very similar to you. Let’s make fun of it for a minute. I started making pizzas for this reason, and they became so good that somebody had a vision for these pizzas beyond what my vision was, or at least not to the expense of changing what we were trying to do in the beginning.

The Metrics Question

With that said, a thought came to my mind: metrics. Let me ask you this. You were talking about the cold part of it, which whenever I hear “cold,” I don’t just think of how someone treats somebody, but I think about how we look at the bottom line. The bottom line is what drives a business. It’s what drives a leader. It’s what drives decisions. It sounds to me like that was a tension point for you. It’s not like you were ridding yourself of profit. It’s not a good business if it doesn’t have profit. But it sounds to me like what you were saying is that maybe even your metrics themselves– Let me ask you this. How have your metrics changed over the years? How are they different than they were before, or at least how you look at them?

Business as a Vehicle for Good

Daniel: The difference is how you see the business. The business, in my view, should be your vehicle, an instrument for you to do something good for the world, to use the business as a tool to impact the lives of people, the lives of your employees, and the lives of the people the business touches. The reason you have the responsibility to build a profitable business is because you have to preserve this tool and advance this tool, the good things you’re doing.

I always tell people, we’re moved by love, not by greed. We continue to advance this business and make it even greater because we love our mission. We believe that the people who are touched by us are in a better position than if they were touched by another business that doesn’t see people as gifts, doesn’t value their talents, and doesn’t want to see them grow and succeed. They’re just there for the bottom line. For me, the bottom line—

Jim: Daniel, what does that practically look like? “We’re moved by love, not by greed.”

Daniel: What does it look like?

Jim: Yes.

Daniel: What motivates us to make decisions is not money. It’s not the fact that we have to get bigger and create wealth. It’s to advance our mission. It is a profitable business, but it has a mission first. It’s a mission-driven business, and it’s led by our values. Our value system that we have. I don’t know if that answers your question.

Leadership Driven by Love: The Seven Values

Jim: Can I continue to dig at that a little bit?

Daniel: Please.

Jim: What is your mission, and share at least a few values that support that mission.

Defining the Mission of Mercy Dental Group

Daniel: The mission of Mercy Dental Group is to create a positive impact in the lives of people using our talents, one of which is dentistry, but only one of them. We have a lot more to offer as people. Dentistry is our tool, our vehicle into people’s lives to start building relationships. We care more about the patient as a person than what we can get out of them. They’re not just our clients. We see them as gifts.

I always remind my staff that the person you have in front of you is unique and talented and a gift for us. They could be anywhere else in the world right now and he’s here in front of you. He could be spending time with their family, they could be doing many other things, or visiting another dentist. It’s an honor to have this person here.

The Leader Humanity Needs

I talk about that in my book when I talk about my values. The book is titled The Leader Humanity Needs. The leader humanity needs is actually the reader. I’m encouraging people to use their talents to lead the world to a better place. If we all do that with this set of values based on the leadership of Jesus, if everyone behaves like that or has this vision, the world will be a better place.

Radical Leadership in the Teachings of Jesus

Jim: Let me join you with that. I was sharing on the podcast earlier that I’ve been doing a little project in the margin time I’ve set to let God work on me. I’ve been reading through the Gospel of Luke. I had this idea that I wanted to read through Luke and write out everything that Jesus said in the Gospel of Luke. I got to the sixth chapter, where Luke gives his version of the Sermon on the Mount, which is mostly known in Matthew 5.

For some reason, the way Luke writes, once I got to that, it was a massive turn, a massive contrast. When one pays attention, the teachings of Jesus are radical. It got into the part about how you deal with your enemies and how you deal with those who are against you, have opposed you, have done you wrong, or have wounded you. I’m telling you that it was so convicting.

If anybody wants to be a leader and thinks that I’m just being religious in what I’m saying, I challenge them to read the teachings of Jesus and tell yourself what kind of a leader you would be if you actually did what Jesus said. I don’t think you can do it without God’s Spirit residing in us. Even then, there’s a battle between that and my flesh wanting to do what I want to do.

So this book you’ve written is really based on how Jesus led. Did I hear that right?

Building Leaders at Every Level

Daniel: Yeah. Let me tell you how I came up with this. When I experienced exponential growth, I knew I had to do something. At the beginning, I influenced my team directly. We had four employees and one location. Then the second location. I would go to both places and make sure the patients were treated with dignity and everyone was treating each other the way I envisioned.

But when it started growing to multiple locations, I obviously could not be everywhere and influence every team. I had to create a system where I could be in more than one place. What I though was, I had to create more leaders, not just people in leadership positions, but people in every position. I’m convinced that everyone has a unique set of talents and experiences, and if you turn those into tools and in values, you can make a positive impact in the workplace and therefore in the patient experience.

Leadership Based on the Greatest Example

How do you form leaders? I thought I had to base my leadership values on the greatest leader in the history of humanity, which I believe is Jesus. What were the aspects of the leadership of Jesus that I wanted to convey in the workplace? I came up with seven marks of leadership: integrity, respect, positivity, empathy, teamwork, service, and humility. We are a secular organization. We are not necessarily a religious organization, a private enterprise. So I took those values and turned them into a more secular message, but they are all based on Jesus.

In the book, I tell the story and the reasons why I believe those values are what made Jesus’s leadership so impactful.

Jim: That’s great.

Story Ad

Winston: Great leaders don’t ignore their past; they learn from it. Every decision you’ve made, every mistake, every win, every failure—it’s all shaping the leader you’re becoming. In Story: The Art of Learning from Your Past, you’ll discover how to turn experience into wisdom, setbacks into strategy, and pain into purpose. This isn’t just a book about reflection; it’s a playbook for growth. If you want to lead with clarity, humility, and confidence, your story matters. Learn from it. Grab your copy of Story: The Art of Learning from Your Past wherever books are sold.

Beyond Clinical Work: Business Training and Leader Health<h/3>

Jim: I know that we understand what you’re saying because I’ve been in dental offices. Those of you listening to this podcast know we’re talking about dentistry because that’s the physical location, at least in part, that Daniel is leading. But these principles apply anywhere. I’ve been in the dental chair in many practices, and it felt like a meat shop. It felt like a transaction—very schedule-driven. To be honest, a lot of times the actual work reflected the pace in which the office operated.

I remember one dentist—I forget his name—but he attended my church in Colorado. He worked for one of those meat shops, butcher shops. Crude to say, but he was different in the midst of it. I sent him a card thanking him and reminding him that he was making a difference in the community by the way he talks to people, the way he treats people. He may not have had a lot to say outside of his little place where he worked, but he sought me out several weeks later with tears in his eyes, telling me that not only did he appreciate the card, but he had a vision to start his own practice based on some of the things he felt deep in his heart. I think that’s what you’re talking about.

Then there have been offices I’ve gone to where I felt these people do care. I just hired a new attorney recently, and I’m not sure how I like how he’s handling the relationship on the front end. When I see him again in a few weeks, I’m going to talk to him about how one can balance that.

Lessons from Unreasonable Hospitality

While you were talking, I was thinking about a book I’m reading right now. One of my clients—I was just in St. Louis last week, which was really cold, probably just as cold as Wisconsin. It might have been even colder. I was working with a group of about 50 leaders there, working through some of the stuff that we do at Lead Today and the Today Count Show. The guy who hosted it handed me this book. He gifted me this book.

For those on YouTube, you can see I’m holding up a book entitled Unreasonable Hospitality. It’s about the restaurant business, and it’s been fascinating. I’m about a quarter of the way through, but it’s a page-turner because the book, in different language and a different culture, is really talking in similar ways to how you’re speaking today where you’re really thinking about the people who come and visit you.

It’s interesting to me because when I teach about people skills, a lot of business folks see that as soft skills. In my experience, I have found them to be difficult, hard skills because it’s not a ploy. It’s not a piece of candy you give somebody. It starts on the inside, where one has to ask the question: Do I really care about other people? You used the word empathy, or being an empathetic leader.

Empathy in an Environment of Fear

Daniel: If you think about it, when you go to a restaurant, you’re going for a good experience, to have a good time. People go to the dentist—most people are like you, Jim. They don’t necessarily like the dentist. They’re afraid. They’ve had a bad experience.

Jim: No, that’s what it is. I’m afraid of pain.

Daniel: Exactly. As much as I love dentistry, I don’t love being a patient. I don’t like going to a dental office as a patient.

Jim: That’s good for us to know.

Daniel: It’s true. This is a great opportunity to be empathetic. We’re trained to do procedures, so we have to make sure everything is correct. There’s a lot we have to think about—the science behind what we’re doing in the patient’s mouth. It can become very mechanical, very focused on the procedure, and you forget about the person.

Jim: Like we’re not even there, right?

Time Is Life: Honoring the Person in Front of You

Daniel: Exactly, you’re thinking about your next patient and the patient before. That’s why I like to emphasize the fact that this person is here and is gifting you something they cannot make more of, which is time. Time is life. He’s choosing to be here. It’s an honor.

Right now, we’re having this conversation. You’re the only Jim Piper in the history of humanity. There has not been one before or one after. It’s an honor to be here with you. I want to make sure that the time you’re investing with me is valuable. I give you something that you don’t have, which is my experience and my life, and the same with you. And I receive you the same way. It’s the same with the patient experience. It’s way more than dentistry.

My job here is basically to remind people, as a CEO, of what we stand for and what this relationship with the patient. Use your talents. It’s an honor to be able to do what you love and also, make a positive impact in someone’s life. What a gift. We want to be good stewards of God’s riches, as this business belongs to God first. That’s what we want to do.

The Business Training Gap in Dentistry

Jim: Let me ask you a few more questions that I think you’ll enjoy answering and it’ll be insightful for us. So, one of them is just informational. When you go to dental school, obviously you learn how to be a dentist, do the work of a dentist, be a doctor. I know you learn much more than what’s inside my mouth. Some of the dentists I know are extremely knowledgeable as doctors, period.

Daniel: That’s right.

Jim: Of course, every physician has their specialty, but when you went to dental school, how much of dental school teaches you how to run a dental office?

Debt, Risk, and the Rise of the DSO Model

Daniel: Almost zero, at least in my– I know that is part of the problem we see with what we were describing earlier about the DSOs and the private equity-backed groups. They see a business that is profitable, and they just run it as a business. Also, new dentists face a lot of challenges. First, they don’t have the training. In dental school, we spend most of our time learning how to do dental procedures. There’s a semester that you just— it depends on the dental school you go to, because some of our recent graduates say they don’t cover that much, and there’s not a lot of interest either. There’s not a lot of interest.

Then they also face other challenges. Becoming a dentist is very expensive. You have to acquire a large debt. Going out of dental school and going into business right away is not the best financial decision because they don’t know how to run the business, and they have to acquire even more debt. That’s creating a perfect scenario for the DSO world to flourish. What I’m trying to do is provide another option, but also encourage other business leaders or people who are entrepreneurial and love dentistry to do what I do. Influencing the industry is another one of my missions. It’s very challenging. We don’t receive a lot of business training.

How a CEO Stays Grounded

Jim: I’ll come back to that in a minute. All right. So, you really are a CEO. Your business has expanded. It’s complicated. Let me start with you. How do you keep yourself as a leader healthy? You can’t give what you don’t have. What advice would you give other leaders in the sense of how you keep yourself healthy so that you can expand and the overflow of your life is a blessing to others?

Daniel: I have the gift of faith, and that is something I am eternally grateful for. I don’t feel I deserve this. When I think about my faith and my relationship with God, it is such a gift. When I look around and see other people who don’t have that gift, I don’t think I deserve it because I did nothing to earn it. I did nothing to earn this beautiful gift, but that keeps me grounded. That keeps me grateful, and that gives me energy.

People ask me, “How do you do all these things? You keep acquiring practices, you write books, you do your men’s program, all the things that you do.” My answer is always the same. I feel grateful, and I feel like I need to do something with this gift. God has given me a huge gift, and I want to honor the gift and use it, use the talents and all that.

That is one way. My prayer life is super important for me. That’s how I start. Also, understanding that suffering and discomfort are part of the things we will face no matter what. One thing that helps me a lot is to have a disciplined life in terms of my fitness and nutrition. I use those things as a source of self-denial to keep me grounded and become more of a sacrificial leader. I am more of a servant than a master. I’m here to serve my people. That also keeps my mind healthy. I’m not as important. I’m the CEO of the company, but I’m not more important than the dental assistant at the dental practice. I just have a different job. I need people.

The other aspect is knowing that I don’t know it all and that I need talented people in my life. I have been blessed by the immense talent that joined my organization, and that makes my life way easier. The company is way larger than when I started, but I feel like I work less. I have more time because I have so many talented people who are so convicted and committed to our mission. That is part of my talent, but also God’s gift in my life through my people.

Building a Value-Driven Culture: Hiring and Coaching

Jim: That’s good. Talk to me about the kind of people that you look for to join your organization.

Hiring for Values, Not Just Skills

Daniel: Being a value-driven company, we seek people who are aligned with those values. I mentioned integrity first—people who understand that everyone is unique, people who respect others, people who have positivity in their lives. Positivity is so important. I always clarify that positivity is not pretending that everything is good, but understanding that even the difficult moments in our lives make us better, make us greater, and are opportunities to grow.

“Don’t Join Us Unless You’ll Make Us Better”

I want to challenge people, too. Every time I interview– I don’t interview for every position anymore, but for positions of leadership that I interview and hire for, I tell people, “I’m not here to convince you to join this company. I want you to tell me how you will make us even greater. How are your talents aligned with what we do, and what are you bringing to the table?” I want to challenge people.

Right now, especially in this competitive market, a lot of people are selling the position, telling you, “This is a great organization. We have these benefits. You should join us.” My take is different. I tell them we are not perfect. If you think you’re walking into a perfect organization, we’re not. The difference is that we strive for perfection. Today we have to be better than yesterday, and tomorrow will be better than today. How are you going to be part of making us better tomorrow?

Jim: Daniel, how do you approach correct or coach, whatever the right word is, behaviors that you see in your organization that have drifted off the values that you try to inject into your culture?

Humility: The King of Virtues

Daniel: We have to address them right away. That’s the first step, for sure. There are always conversations. We don’t give up easily on people. We understand that people can make mistakes and that we are all growing. When we address situations like that, we ask, “How are we moving from here? What are you planning to do?”

First, humility is one of our values. It is the king of all virtues, as I call it. It is about acknowledging, I’m looking always for that moment of, “Yes, I made this mistake, and this is how I’m going to fix it.” Apologizing, whatever it is. I’ve had situations like that. I can think of a manager at a dental office who made a mistake that we had to address. She immediately did not defend herself. She said, “Yes, I made this mistake, and I will fix it,” and did it in a very humble way. We are all for that. Addressing the situation as soon as possible and using our values to get out of it.

Profit as Fuel: The Most Important Lesson for a CEO

Jim: One more question before we sign off. This may not be fair because I’m just dropping it on you. You probably got more than one. In regard to how far you’ve come, you’ve come a long way, you’ve accomplished amazing things. We’ll make sure we get your websites in our show notes so people can see how vast your offerings are beyond dentistry. I don’t know what else to call it but the business side. I don’t want to call it the business side, but I don’t know what else to call it. So that’s what I call it, because it’s all business.

But getting to where you’re at today versus where you were on the business side of things, remember the question I asked you: How much did they teach you in dental school about running a business? You said there was a semester about something. So there really wasn’t much of anything. What would you say has been the most important lesson you’ve learned in the CEO seat and in building a financially stable organization?

The Greatest Lesson from the CEO Seat

Daniel: The most important lesson I have learned is that numbers or success in the financial sense are a result of a great culture, creating culture. It sounds a little irresponsible for someone business-minded because it’s not that we make blind decisions or ignore the business side of this, but it’s understanding the way you see the business and the importance of a profitable business to preserve your mission.

To believe in the mission is the first step, believing in what you do, because I follow that mission too. I’m inspired by the mission. The mission is greater than me. The mission is greater than everyone else. This is not my business. Technically it’s my business, but I also serve the business.

We are all united in this, but the business is just a tool. It’s just an instrument. I have been able to create a very successful, profitable business without thinking too much about the numbers, or at least thinking of the numbers as tools, as the way we preserve our mission.

Jim: I really like that idea. It might not be exactly how you said it, but you kind of see profit as fuel, and fuel is so important to empower the mission.

Daniel: That’s right.

Jim: It’s a necessary part of it, but it’s not the focus. The focus is the mission. There are some practical things that you have to have in order for the mission to continue to be successful and expand.

Production vs. Patient Care

Daniel: And our staff, because it’s hard when you think about it. In my industry, production means someone’s pain or someone’s procedure you have to do on a patient. So how do you increase production? We’re not selling a product necessarily. We have to take care of people. If you get more focused on production, that means that you have to upcharge your patient, or that will affect your patient care. That is the difference. Seeing the business as a tool, being efficient with our time and all that, but the ultimate goal of enhancing the patient experience will bring more business.

Jim: Daniel, one more time, what is the name of your book and what website do you want to give us? We’ll put everything else in your show notes.

The Leader Humanity Needs

Daniel: The name of the book is The Leader Humanity Needs. It’s right here. I have it here.

Jim: Hold that up, at least for those watching on YouTube.

Daniel: The Leader Humanity Needs. It is calling people to be light in the darkness. That’s why you see the sun overcoming the darkness. That is the leader humanity needs, which is the reader.

Jim: They can get that on Amazon, I assume.

Daniel: Yes, on Amazon or Barnes & Noble. Everywhere. My website, you can go to my personal website, which is my name and last name, danieltataje.com.

Jim: Tataje is spelled T-A-T-A-J-E.com.

Daniel: From there, you can see everything. I’m connected with Mercy Dental Group, Lumen Enterprises, and Mercy Dental Missions, which is our nonprofit arm. We do mission trips and a lot of fun stuff with them, serving underserved populations. You can see all the nonprofit work I do.

Jim: Daniel, it was so great having you on the show. Maybe we’ll check back in another year and see how things are going and have you back on. Thank you for being with us today.

Daniel: Thank you for having me. This was a pleasure speaking with you. I’m looking forward to the next one.

Outro

Winston: Thanks for spending part of your day with us on the Today Count Show. If today’s conversation encouraged you, challenged you, or helped you grow, share it with someone in your circle because we’re better when we grow together. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and stay connected with us on Instagram, YouTube, LinkedIn, and Facebook. Remember, real change doesn’t happen someday; it happens today. Until next time, keep showing up, keep building, keep making today count.
—————————–