Episode 214: When Wisdom Looks Like Leaving: Jacob, Laban & Leadership Under Pressure | Genesis 31

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Today Counts Show Episode 214

Preview

Gary: We try to use God’s name when it’s convenient. Here, he’s using Jacob’s relationship with God to create a covenant that will protect himself. In other words, he knows that Jacob honors God, and he gets him to make a commitment because he knows he’ll keep his commitment. And why is he doing it? To protect himself from a guy who’s aligned with God.

Appreciation of our Supporters

Winston: Hey, before we jump into the podcast, we want to thank all our donors and supporters who make the Today Count Show possible. It’s through your generosity that we’re able to shape leaders through this content and this podcast. Be sure to subscribe and follow wherever you come across this content. All right, let’s get to the podcast.

Introduction

Jim: Everybody, welcome back to the Today Count Show. Today we’ve got Winston, Gary, Matt, and Jim. I’ll tell you, we are in Genesis 31. Hopefully, you’ve been following along. I can’t imagine that you would just jump in at any spot, but maybe you have. If you have, welcome to Chapter 31 of Genesis.

Just really quick, Jacob is taking off. He’s had enough. He’s split. Are you guys doing all right? Everybody? Gary?

Gary: Yes, sir.

Jim: Good. Business going well?

Gary: You know, I’m trying to keep up with my grandkids. That’s really what I’m doing.

Jim: Okay. I understand that 100%.

The Breaking Point in Jacob and Laban’s Relationship

All right, we’re in Genesis Chapter 31. I’m going to call this The Breaking Point.

It says, “Now Jacob heard that the sons of Laban were saying, ‘Jacob has taken all that was our father’s, and from what was our father’s he has gained all his wealth.’ And Jacob saw that Laban did not regard him with favor as before.”

Let me say that again: “And Jacob saw that Laban did not regard him with favor as before.”

By the way, I’m reading out of the ESV, English Standard Version, this time.

“Then the Lord said to Jacob, ‘Return to the land of your fathers and to your kindred, and I will be with you.'”

Family Dysfunction and Human Nature

Jim: So, what’s happening here, guys? I think it’s about 20 years. The relational environment has turned toxic. Laban’s sons are openly resentful and noticeably, right? Jacob, as we say, has read the room correctly. Things are not good, and he doesn’t ignore the signs. According to the author here, Moses through oral tradition, God steps in and says, ‘It’s time to go. It’s time to leave.’

Winston: Good old family dysfunction. Good old family conflict. Nothing like it.

Jim: Yeah, man. Family causes a lot of stress, doesn’t it? Is it just my family?

Winston: No. And stressed right now.

Jim: The bigger we get, the more blessed we are.

Matt: Yeah. It doesn’t take much sometimes for a family to go from somewhat cordial to dysfunctional. I don’t know that anybody would say their family is normal. My dad always said the only place you’ll find normal is the setting on a washing machine. You won’t find it anywhere else.

Winston: I like that.

Jim: I did a teaching series a couple decades ago called something like The World’s Most Dysfunctional Family, and it was all based upon the story of Joseph. There was plenty of content.

It’s nice to talk about somebody else’s family, though, versus if you said, ‘We’re going to take a seven-week series and talk about the Piper family.’

Gary: Yeah, absolutely.

Matt: That would not be good.

Winston: It would not be good. It just seems like a lot of tension is building up, and it’s causing Jacob to make a decision. Obviously, God is telling him to move, but think about all the things that have come up to this point. This is, to your point, the breaking point. Something’s got to give. Something’s got to give.

Agreements, Expectations, and Changing Perspectives

Jim: Now, Gary, your family’s pretty much straight down the middle perfect in every way.

Gary: Sure. What struck me from this is we do attribute it to family, and I agree that’s true. But I’ve also seen it’s really human nature more than just family because I’ve seen so many partnerships where people enter into an agreement on the front end where it looks good, then years go by and more success comes than you expect, and suddenly you want to go back on the original basis for starting it. I don’t know what it is about time that changes our perspective. Here you have two parties who see history very differently. It’s way more than family. It’s every human being.

Jim: You know what, Gary? You’re right down the middle there because we advise people before they go into business together to draw up their buyout agreement before they even get started. But that’s what these guys did. They had a buyout agreement, but they didn’t go by it.

Winston: They didn’t stick to it.

Jim: Didn’t stick to it, to your point.

Jacob Builds a Coalition and Shares His Case

Jacob Confronts the Situation with Rachel and Leah

Jim: Verse 4 says: “So Jacob sent and called Rachel and Leah into the field where his flock was and said to them—”

Let’s pause for a second. Rachel and Leah are sisters, and they’re both married to Jacob. That’s a whole thing how that happened. Now they’re on the same team most of the time. I don’t know if that’s true either. So he brings them to the field and says:

“‘I see that your father does not regard me with favor as he did before, but the God of my father has been with me. You know that I have served your father with all my strength.'”

Do you feel the tension there?

Matt: Yeah.

Jim: I mean, gosh. “‘Yet your father has cheated me and changed–‘” Now I’m thinking about being a daughter and someone’s talking about my dad. “‘Has cheated me and changed my wages ten times.”

Matt: He’s very specific.

Jim: Ten times. A little bit of bitterness.

Matt: A little bit. When you’re that specific about negative change, you’re bitter about it.

Jim: But you know what? First Corinthians 13 wasn’t written yet. So he’s good, right? “Keep no record of wrongs.”

Winston: He’s got all the records.

Matt: All the receipts right there.

God’s Provision Through the Flocks

Jim: “‘My wages ten times. But God did not permit him to harm me.'”

Verse 8:

“If he said, ‘The spotted shall be your wages,’ then all the flock bore spotted. And if he said, ‘The striped shall be your wages,’ then all the flock bore striped. Thus God has taken away the livestock of your father and given them to me. In the breeding season of the flock, I lifted up my eyes and saw in a dream that the goats that mated with the flock were striped, spotted, and mottled.'”

I didn’t know what mottled was. I had to do a word study on it.

Winston: Can you tell me?

Jim: Yeah, it’s kind of a mixture of striped and spotted. It’s anything but solid.

Matt: It’s like dappled is another word for that.

Jim: Yeah. It’s like modern art where you just take the paint.

Winston: Splotchy.

Jim: Something like that.

Winston: I’m going to start using mottled every day.

Jim: Hey Gary, you missed it. Was it last time?

Matt: Chapter 30?

Jim: Yeah, chapter 30 when our resident rancher here, Pastor Matt Martin, taught us about this whole spotted and striped thing.

Matt: That was only the hand of God that could do that. You don’t choose by color. I know personally because there’s a certain color goat I’m trying to produce right now and I cannot. They keep coming out the opposite color or whatever color they choose.

Dreams, Divine Direction, and Family Alignment

Jim: Verse 11 says that God gave Jacob a dream. Have you guys ever had a dream that you believe God gave you?

Gary: I have not.

Jim: You have not. I had a Sunday school teacher who told me that an angel visited him. His name was Mr. Eastman. Pretty interesting too. It was after his mother died. They were farmers.

I’ve had some dreams that shook me, but could I say they were directly sent from God? I can’t. But I’ve definitely had some that caused me pause.

It says, “And the angel of God said to me in the dream, ‘Jacob,’ and I said, ‘Here I am.'”

That seems to be a pattern that starts to show up as we read further in the Old Testament.

“And he said, ‘Lift up your eyes and see. All the goats that mate with the flock are striped, spotted, and mottled, for I have seen all that Laban is doing to you. I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a pillar and made a vow to me. Now arise, go out from this land, and return to the land of your kindred.’

Then Rachel and Leah answered him:

‘Is there any portion or inheritance left for us in our father’s house?'”

Matt: I don’t think the brothers appreciated that statement.

Jim: Yeah. It says:

“‘Are we not regarded by him as foreigners?'”

Boy, it’s spreading, isn’t it?

“‘For he has sold us, and he has indeed devoured our money. All the wealth that God has taken away from our father belongs to us and to our children. Now then, whatever God has said to you, do.'”

God’s Presence in the Middle of Chaos

Jim: So he meets with his wives in the field. In business, we would call that a guiding coalition. Put together a guiding coalition. He gets them on the same page. He presents evidence of changed treatment, his own faithful service, and God’s providential vindication. And the wives align immediately and pile on.

Matt: Again, reading through that, I love how clear it is in Scripture that through the chaos, through being done wrong, God is still in control…

Jim: I don’t know about you guys, but when I’m going through chaos or dysfunction or a battle or tension, it’s difficult for me to believe that God is in that. Right?

Here we see this is a family feud going on, and yet God is in this as much as He would be receiving worship at a worship service. It brings me back to a statement I say often and try to believe often, but sometimes my emotions aren’t always align with it: God’s big enough to be small enough to care about us.

This isn’t pretty. But God hasn’t removed Himself from it.

Winston: Yeah. The part where God says, “I’ve seen all that Laban has done to you.” It’d be like, “Really? You’ve been watching?

Matt: You’ve been watching the whole time?’

Winston: “Cool. All right. It’s been years, God. What do you want me to do with that statement?”

Jim: Where did that help me? Were you eating popcorn watching?

Matt: Seeing how this plays out? What are we doing? That’s good.

Jacob’s Departure and Laban’s Pursuit

Rachel Takes the Household Gods

Jim: Verse 17: “So Jacob arose and set his sons and his wives on camels.”

Matt: First class.

Jim: It’s funny, just the wording of things. He literally didn’t pick up his sons and wives.

Verse 18:

“He drove away all his livestock, all his property that he had gained, the livestock in his possession that he had acquired in Paddan Aram, to go to the land of Canaan to his father Isaac.”

He drove away meaning— What would you say? Corralled?

Matt: He herded them.

Jim: Yeah. Brought them with him. ESV is going to be a literal attempt at translation, so it doesn’t always roll off our tongues like the NLT might.

“Laban had gone to shear his sheep, and Rachel stole her father’s household gods.”

Matt: She wasn’t over it. It doesn’t tell us what Jacob said to her in the field when she asked. She went ahead and took it on herself.

Jim: Yeah. She took it on herself.

Matt: To get some inheritance.

Jim: That’s exactly right. If you possessed these gods, it was a sign of inheritance. It’s not like she went in there because she thought it was the coolest display for her new tent.

Winston: It wasn’t décor.

Jim: It was evidence that she deserved whatever they had that they took. Does that make sense?

Matt: Yes.

Was Jacob Deceptive or Wise?

Jim: If she’s in possession of the gods, then she would naturally be in possession of some of her father’s materials. All right. That’s the key there.

Verse 20: “And Jacob tricked–” Shocker.

Matt: Wow, really?

Jim: Going back to Abraham. “And Jacob tricked Laban the Aramean by not telling him that he intended to flee.”

We’ll talk about that. Was that good strategy? Was that bad? What was that?

“He fled with all that he had and arose and crossed the Euphrates and set his face toward the hill country of Gilead.”

Winston: What’s the saying? Everything that is said needs to be true, but not everything true needs to be said.

Jim: Yeah.

Winston: Jacob didn’t necessarily say what was true.

Jim: Did he owe a goodbye?

Matt: You may be thinking, “Laban, I was surprised when I woke up the morning after my wedding night. So I’m going to let you be surprised when you wake up in the morning.” Gary, would you have told him? Would you have told him you were leaving, Gary?

Gary: Yeah. I wondered whether God gave him any indication how he should do this. It doesn’t say.

Jim: Yeah, good point. It doesn’t say.

Gary: He just told him to leave. So I don’t know. Being treated the way he was, I might not have told him either because he didn’t trust him.

Laban Catches Up

Jacob Leaves Quietly

Jim: Especially once his wives aligned the way they did. I think we’re going to see later that he was no longer afraid of Laban. I think we’re going to see that later.

But why hassle it? Get the heck out of Dodge.

Matt: Why kick the ant bed?

Jim: Especially if God told you to. And to Gary’s point, if God didn’t tell you how, He just said go.

Gary: At some point, God leads us through wisdom. Laban’s character here is that even at the end of this story he says, “Everything you’ve got, Jacob, is mine,” even though it’s not. If he’d told him upfront, he would have claimed it was his to begin with. So he would have entered into a war right then probably.

I don’t know if it’s as clear-cut as deception. Although the word says he deceived him.

Jim: But in this context-

Gary: That may have been wise.

Jim: -is that wrong? May have been shrewd. Shrewd maybe.

Laban Pursues Jacob

Verse 22: “When it was told Laban on the third day that Jacob had fled, he took his kinsmen with him and pursued him for seven days and followed close after him into the hill country of Gilead. But God came to Laban the Aramean in a dream by night and said to him, ‘Be careful not to say anything to Jacob, either good or bad.'”

And Laban overtook Jacob. Now Jacob had pitched his tent in the hill country, and Laban with his kinsmen camped in the hill country of Gilead. And Laban said to Jacob, ‘What have you done, that you have tricked me and driven away my daughters like captives of the sword?'”

In Jim’s commentary: “After all I’ve done for you.”

Verse 27: “‘Why did you flee secretly and trick me and did not tell me, so that I might have sent you away with mirth and songs, with tambourine and lyre? And why did you not permit me to kiss my sons and my daughters farewell?'”

Laban’s Mixed Messages

Matt: Let’s throw some guilt in there.

Jim: Yeah. “Now you have done foolishly. It is in my power to do you harm.”

Matt: The guilt, and now we’re going to threaten. I like it.

Jim: Yeah. He’s all over the place.

“But the God of your father spoke to me last night saying, Be careful not to say anything to Jacob, either good or bad.”

I don’t really get that because he already did.

Matt: He said, “I’m going to say it, and then your God told me not to say what I did say to you. Just in case you were wondering what I was going to say, that is what I was going to say to you.”

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Evaluating Laban’s Character

Is There Any Evidence of Virtue?

Gary: Is there any indication from the stories about Laban that he is a person of virtue? I think about every story we saw. Abraham gave him a choice of what land to take, and he took the best. Abraham rescued him from being captured. Then he lives in Sodom and Gomorrah. Is there anything about this guy that shows any virtue? I couldn’t think of anything.

Jim: The only thing I remember is him meeting Jacob at the well and bringing him back to meet the family. That was it, right? I think that’s all I remember. But I don’t know that I’d call that a good deed.

Matt: I’m not going to jump ahead and read it, but the only good thing we’re going to seek out of Laban in this story is the last phrase of this chapter.

Jim: Maybe.

Matt: Maybe.

Jim: I know what you’re talking about.

Matt: Just hang on with bated breath until we get there.

Jim: Yeah. We’re doing pretty good, right?

The Accusation About the Household Gods

Jacob Explains Why He Fled

Jim: Verse 30: “‘But now you have gone away because you longed greatly for your father’s house. But why did you steal my gods?'”

Okay, here we go. You guys ready? Got your seat belts on for this?

“Jacob answered and said to Laban, ‘Because I was afraid.'”

He’s answering two questions. First answer to the first question: “Because I was afraid, for I thought that you would take your daughters from me by force.”

All right. So that’s why he snuck out. But then we come to the gods thing.

“Anyone with whom you find your god shall not live.”

Obviously, he did not know that his favorite wife—

Matt: Imagine somebody in this family lying to another family member. Imagine that.

Jim: I can’t believe that.

Matt: I can’t believe it.

Jim: “‘Shall not live. In the presence of our kinsmen, point out what I have with me and take it.’ Now Jacob did not know that Rachel had stolen them.

So Laban went into Jacob’s tent and into Leah’s tent and into the tent of the two female servants, but he did not find them. He went out of Leah’s tent and entered Rachel’s tent.

Now Rachel had taken the household gods and put them in the camel’s saddle and sat on them.

Laban felt all about the tent but did not find them. She said—”

The Camel Saddle Question

Matt: Hold on. Hold on. Okay, I have a question.

Gary: Just one?

Matt: I’m raising my hand.

Jim: Matt’s raising his hand. So we pause and acknowledge the senior statesman.

Matt: Yes. She put them inside her camel’s saddle, right? There’s a saddle for camels?

Jim: Yeah. You haven’t seen pictures?

Matt: No. I might have to go look that up. Doesn’t look like a western saddle, I assume. For a horse.

Jim: Obviously, they’ve been using these for travel.

Matt: This one’s got the big handles on them.

Jim: I don’t think so.

Matt: Oh, never mind. Keep going.

Jim: I think they came along later.

Rachel Hides the Idols

Jim: Okay. All right. Verse 35.

“She said to her father, ‘Let not my lord be angry that I cannot rise before you, for the way of women is upon me.’ So he searched but did not find the household gods.”

All right. Quick zoom here. Laban mobilizes quickly, puts force together, finds them. God restrains him from whatever he was going to say that he didn’t say. Laban’s speech is manipulative. Talks about missing a farewell party. That’s baloney.

Matt: That would not have played out that way.

Jim: Yeah. Kind of like what Gary was saying. When has he ever done anything that would cause us to believe him? Essentially, that’s what you said, Gary.

Winston: It might have been an interesting party though.

Jim: Interesting party. You’re curious, aren’t you, Winston?

Winston: I’m thinking the party with Leah didn’t turn out very well. So what kind of party would this be?

Jim: And Jacob’s death sentence declaration over the thief is dramatic irony, right? He doesn’t know it’s his beloved Rachel. Then Rachel is going through a menstrual cycle and uses that to hide the gods. Lot going on there.

They’re hustling through the tents. Again, these aren’t camping tents. That took a while to set up.

Matt: This isn’t a two-man tent.

Jim: Yet, she’s still on a camel.

Matt: Well, it has a saddle. It’s comfortable.

Jim: That’s weird, right? The tents — I don’t know how long they took to set up, but they took the better part of a day, I would imagine.

Matt: Yeah.

Jacob’s Defense of Twenty Years of Service

Reaching a Boiling Point

Jim: She’s sitting on a camel. Well, I guess it kind of implies that maybe she sees them coming and thinks that’s the best hiding place. And then for some reason says, “Look at me, Daddy. I know how to ride a camel, I can get on top of the camel.” I don’t know. Weird.

All right. So now we go into Jacob’s defense of his last 20 years. That starts in Verse 36. So now they’re arguing, really. Nobody’s listening and everyone’s talking.

Matt: Jacob’s angry. Basically rebukes him.

Jim: Oh yeah.

Matt: You can imagine. He’s changed his wages ten times. He gave him the wrong girl. All these things. He’s like, “What is my crime?” That’s what the NIV says.

Jim: Yeah. He’s had it.

Matt: Yeah. He’s just saying, “How have I wronged you that you hunt through all my— All the other things you’ve said and done along the way, and now suddenly you’re going to come rummage through my things and try to find another way to accuse me of something I have not done.”

Courage Through Obedience

Jim: I think the other thing you see happening here, even though it doesn’t say it — once you start obeying God, you will grow in courage. I see him growing in courage.

Matt: He had the integrity of the 20 years. He knew his integrity outweighed any accusation. That’s tough. He’d reached a boiling point with this.

Jim: I like how God also affirmed his identity by saying, “Remember me? You and I met at Bethel.”

Matt: Yeah. That’s good.

Jim: The same One speaking to you. I need God to do that for me. I need God to remind me where He’s been with me, where He’s walked with me, particularly when I’m facing something.

Winston: All I can think about is Jacob wanting to elbow Laban like when we did the [unintelligible]. That’s all I’m thinking. I just see Jacob angry.

Matt: He’s tired of being boxed out.

Winston: He’s tired of being beaten up by Laban.

Matt: He said, “I’m going to put an elbow to the throat.”

Jim: It’s kind of like a Popeye situation. He’s had enough.

Matt: Had enough.

Jim: Did you watch? Do you know who Popeye is?

Winston: Popeye.

Jim: Yeah. Popeye.

Winston: Popeye the Sailorman.

Matt: Look at that. We just did the—

Jim: Spinach. Jacob’s not eating any spinach here.

Winston: I’m just old enough to know Popeye.

Jacob’s Formal Complaint

Jim: It says: “Then Jacob became angry and berated Laban.” Interesting. “Jacob said—” So he’s not arguing now. When you think of berating—

Winston: Yelling, going at him.

Jim: I wonder at what distance.

Winston: Pretty close. I would think so.

Jim: Jacob said to Laban: “‘What is my offense? What is my sin, that you have hotly pursued me?'”

Winston: Hotly.

Jim: Hotly. I think that’s a poor translation. Hotly, I don’t know. Anyway—

Matt: The NIV says, “That you hunt me down.”

Jim: Hunt me down. Gary, what are you using?

Gary: Mine is New American Standard. It says “hotly.”

Jim: And what’s yours?

Matt: Hunt me down. NIV.

Jim: That’s idiomatic translation. Gary and I are using literal. What are you using?

Winston: I was in ESV, but I’ll jump to NLT. I usually—

Jim: What does the NLT—

Matt: Using the Passion Bible.

Jim: What does Good News say?

Winston: What have I done wrong to make you chase after me as though I were a criminal?

Jim: Put it in plain language.

Jacob Reviews His Record

Faithful Stewardship and Personal Sacrifice

Jim: Verse 37.

“‘For you have felt through all my goods. What have you found of all your household goods? Set it here before my kinsmen and your kinsmen, that they may decide between us two. These twenty years I have been with you. Your ewes and your female goats have not miscarried.'”

Why did he say that?

Matt: Because on average, during a kidding season or birthing season, you lose about ten percent of births. I’ve found that to be true, if not fifteen percent at times. Just because of nature, birth defects. All those things.

Jim: Was that another way of saying, “I never stole from you?”

Matt: Yes.

Jim: Because you could have tried to cover it up.

Matt: He goes on to say that. He said if an animal— One that they never miscarried is — that’s nature and the hand of God. But my point is, sometimes you could blame missing sheep on miscarriages. He never stole is in the hand of Jacob.

Jim: My point is sometimes you could blame missing sheep on miscarriages.

Matt: He goes on to say wild animals would tear them apart. You haven’t read it yet, but I love what he’s about to say.

Jim: And he finished the phrase, “And I have not eaten the rams of your flocks. What was torn by wild beasts I did not bring to you.”

Matt: I bore the loss myself.

Jim: I bore the loss of it myself.

Matt: So in other words, we have replacement animals, and you’re replacing those in the herd. Jacob was taking out of his own herd and replacing at his own cost.

Twenty Years of Hard Labor

Jim: Okay. It says: “‘From my hand you required it, whether stolen by day or stolen by night. There I was. By day the heat consumed me and the cold by night, and my sleep fled from my eyes.'”

That happened to me last night. I was stuck in Houston. They canceled our flight.

Anyway, Verse 41.

“‘These twenty years I have been in your house. I served you fourteen years for your two daughters and six years for your flock.'”

Enough is enough. That’s my commentary.

“‘And you changed my wages ten times.'”

Matt: Here it comes again. What I love is we can sum up Jacob and Laban’s relationship in these eight verses. You can tell the whole story in those 8 verses right there.

God Was on Jacob’s Side

Jim: It says: “‘If the God of my father, the God of Abraham,” now we’re getting the patriarchal succession plan, “‘and the Fear of Isaac had not been on my side, surely now you would have sent me away empty-handed.'”

Now we’re getting the patriarchal succession plan.

“‘Even though I’m the husband of your daughters. God saw my affliction and the labor of my hands and rebuked you last night.'”

So he’s angry. He does the history lesson and yet says God is on his side.

Laban’s Refusal to Repent

Ignoring the Evidence

Gary: Yeah. Now the next sentence ties in all that went before. Back on Laban’s character — the idea of repentance is that you finally see the error of your ways, admit it, and change direction. There’s plenty of evidence here that Laban had of God’s work.

The supernatural blessings of Jacob over and over. He got the striped sheep. He got whatever. It was clear by the evidence that God was blessing. It was miraculous. And then God speaks to Laban. No evidence of him ever changing his mind. No repentance.

So the next statement is, “Yeah, I hear you. Blah blah blah. It’s still all mine.”

Jim: I saw you right then at a church on a Wednesday night behind a pulpit teaching verse by verse, Gary.

Matt: Wow.

Jim: That’s perfect. Blah blah blah.

Gary: There’s no repentance here. It’s kind of like Saul. What’s that noise I hear bleeding in the background? I guess I’m on my Laban kick here today.

Matt: There you go.

Jim: That’s good.

Matt: You’re kicking Laban is a better way to say it.

Jim: Kicking Laban tour.

The Covenant of Distrust

Laban Claims Everything

Winston: Kicking him, elbowing.

Jim: So to your point, Gary, 43 says: “Then Laban answered and said to Jacob, ‘The daughters are my daughters. The children are my children. The flocks are my flocks. All that you see is mine. But what can I do this day for these my daughters or for their children whom they have borne? Come now, let us make a covenant, you and I.'”

Let me stop for a minute and say something here that I think is important.

I learned this a long time ago because I taught it in error. I thought this was a good thing when I read, “Let us make a covenant.”

But what I’ve learned is that in this case, and many cases like it, it’s actually a manifestation of distrust. In this case we would say contract. We would say agreement. It’s like when you get in that fight with your brother or two sisters get in that fight. They’re sharing the same room and put tape down the middle. “This is my side. This is your side.”

The Heap of Stones

Jim: “‘And let it be a witness between you and me.’ So Jacob took a stone and set it up as a pillar. Jacob said to his kinsmen, ‘Gather stones.’ They took stones and made a heap. They ate there by the heap. Laban called it—”

Whatever he called it. Jegar Sahadutha.

I don’t know how to pronounce that.

Matt: That’s pretty good. I’m impressed.

Jim: “But Jacob called it Galeed. Laban said, ‘This heap is a witness between you and me today.’ Therefore he named it Galeed and Mizpah.

“He said, ‘The Lord watch between you and me when we are out of one another’s sight.'”

That kind of makes it clearer, doesn’t it? It’s not, “May God bless you a hundred times over.” No. God’s watching.

If you oppress my daughters or if you take wives besides my daughters, although no one is with us, see, God is witness between you and me.

“Then Laban said to Jacob, ‘See this heap and the pillar which I have set between you and me? This heap is a witness, and the pillar is a witness that I will not pass over this heap to you, and you will not pass over this heap and this pillar to me for harm.'”

It’s literally tape down the middle of the room.

The God of Abraham and the God of Nahor, the God of their father, judge between us. So Jacob swore by the Fear of his father Isaac. Jacob offered a sacrifice in the hill country and called his kinsmen to eat bread. They ate bread and spent the night in the hill country.

“Early in the morning, Laban arose and kissed his grandchildren and his daughters and blessed them. Then Laban departed and returned home.”

Pastor Matt?

The Best Thing Laban Ever Did

Matt: That was the phrase I was talking about. He departed and returned home. That may be the best thing Laban ever did.

Manipulation Through Spiritual Language

Using God for Self-Protection

Gary: The irony is that Laban finishes here by pointing out to Jacob that God sees whatever he’s doing. I just think, how often do we— Politicians— We try to use God’s name when it’s convenient? He is true to the end.

Jim: He doesn’t even deny the charges, instead he pivots and goes right to covenant making.

Matt: But is there some wisdom in drawing a hard line from the in-laws? That’s another podcast. It’s a heap of stones. You don’t cross this and I won’t cross that.

Winston: Trying to get into trouble.

Matt: We need to do that in some pre-marriage and post-marriage counseling. I’ll leave that alone though.

Jim: I can see where that grows out of this. For sure.

A Backhanded Covenant

Gary: In a way— Boy, I’m Johnny-one-note here on Laban.

Jim: Johnny-one-note. I haven’t heard that in a long time.

Gary: In a way, Laban knows that God has seen Jacob and protected him. So here he’s using Jacob’s relationship with God to create a covenant that will protect himself.

In other words, he knows that Jacob honors God. He gets him to make a commitment because he knows he’ll keep his commitment. And why is he doing it? To protect himself from a guy who’s aligned with God.

Matt: Why’d you wait until the end to tell all that? You could have started there.

Gary: Everything in this is Laban is self-serving. Everything, one hundred percent.

Winston: It’s the backhanded covenant.

Jim: Yeah.

The True Meaning of Mizpah

Matt: I want to go back to Gary’s point about Mizpah. One of the commentaries says because of that suspicion, the idea of Mizpah or watching means: if you do wrong, God sees it and He will punish you. In effect, the pillar of Mizpah meant if you come over this line, the pact is void and I’ll kill you. Sometimes we rush past—

Jim: Isn’t that a kissy kissy?

Matt: Exactly. It’s not this nice sentiment. I love how you pointed that out. We’re drawing a hard line in the sand. To Gary’s point, I’m going to manipulate you with your own belief system so you don’t cross it.

Winston: Wow.

Matt: A lot of narcissism and evil and not being God-honoring in our relationships. This is real for today in our world; in how we lead our companies; in how we lead our families. How many times are we manipulating them to not do something by using their own belief system or their faith?

Jim: It’s exhausting.

Matt: I’ve had people tell me, “I know I’m going to say this about you because I know you can’t respond because of how you believe or what the Bible says.” It gives them a chance to pick up a rock and throw it at me.

Interesting dialogue here. Laban was shrewd in that.

Final Reflections

An Uneasy Ending

Jim: The relationship ends with some outward dignity, but not restoration.

Winston: Agree to disagree.

Jim: At best, right? We read the whole chapter together. We know that these two tribes could have easily gone to war.

Matt: I believe this is the last place we see Laban.

Gary: I hope so.

Winston: Yes.

Matt: In case you were wondering how Gary felt.

Winston: Gary came in hot today.

Gary: Usually when you react this strongly, there’s something underneath.

Jim: I was wondering if you had a neighbor teenager named Laban.

Matt: Were you bullied by somebody named Laban? Oh man.

Leadership Lessons from Genesis 31

Jim: Let’s land this plane. Let’s each share something that stuck out to you. I’ll go first.

This comes from my own wounds in leadership. Jacob was not completely aware of what was going on in his inner circle. I’m referring to Rachel. That has happened to me. I’m guilty of that. I don’t know what the remedy is necessarily. That stuck out to me.

Winston: I think for me, being a girl dad with two girls and thinking about how Rachel and Leah talked about how Laban treated them as foreigners.

Jim: That’s rough.

Winston: I think that was interesting. I guess it doesn’t tell us here if—

Jim: As chattel even, right?

Winston: Yeah. I don’t know if it tells us that Laban was intentional with that, if that was just his character and that came across, but just that idea that his daughters were aware of his character and the way that he was going about things. Him and his beef with Jacob were the main thing, but other people were affected by his poor character.

Jim: Well, I like what you picked out when you go back to the story of him doing the switch, and then his rationalization was kind of like, “Well, in our way, the eldest has to go first.”

Winston: To try to justify it was—

God Sees and Knows

Jim: That’s how he justified it, even though he already given her hand to him. Did he just assume that before that happened Leah would get married? Who knows, who cares?

These girls were definitely wounded by—we talk about father wounds—that those were legit father wounds. Even when you consider their culture is different than ours. Swapping one kid out for the other, can you ever call that culture? I don’t.

Winston: That’s crazy. They’re obviously hurt.

Gary: Just to keep you on your toes. Mine is not about Laban. It’s about God saying, “I’ve seen what Laban has been doing to you, and this has gone on for years.” Sometimes you just feel like God’s not paying attention, doesn’t know. His ways are not my ways. I just have to remind myself when I’m in the middle of what I think is injustice or whatever, he sees it and he knows.

The reverse is true. He knows when I’m doing stuff that doesn’t make sense. But it doesn’t mean he always reacts. He has something bigger in mind. So patience, I guess.

Jim: It does have a calming effect just to know that and believe that.

Remembering Bethel

Matt: Similar to what Gary just said, the phrase multiple things—the saddle on the camel jumps out, but there’s nothing there.

Jim: You want to make something there.

Matt: Just because I’m intrigued mainly. The phrase that God uses with Jacob and says, “I am the God of Bethel.” God reminded Jacob of a very special place where he met with him and he met with God.

Jim: The defining moment.

Matt: A defining moment. In the midst of the chaos, I’ve lived it in my own life, in my family, my leadership, and just my personal life of decisions, that when chaos takes over, it’s good to be reminded of those defining moments.

I can think of a particular case in my own life where I thought, “Why am I doing this?” It felt like I was following what God wanted me to do. God reminded me of a defining moment that led me. I’m in this place and it feels like chaos and there’s a lot of things going on, but to what Gary said, God saw him. God was with him.

God’s Faithfulness Through the Journey

Matt: In the midst of it, we have patience, but also I think one of the greatest things that brings patience for us is the reminders. The reminder that, “I am the God of Bethel. I’m the place where we met. I am the place that I was true to you then. I’ll be true to you now. I was faithful to you then. I’ll be faithful to you now. I’ve brought you this far.”

“I’m not going to—it feels like you may have left me, God, but I’ve not left you. I’m going to take you back to the land where you’re going to continue to flourish. You’re going to flourish even more than you did here, and you’re going to see the reward greater than any of the trouble and the issue that you went through here.”

“And why is that? Because I’m the God of Bethel. Surely God is in this place.”

I love the picture that that reminder paints.

Jim: That’s a great time together today, you guys. And for those of you listening, we just say God bless you, and God is closer than you realize. We’ll see you in Genesis 32.

Outro

Winston: Thanks for spending part of your day with us on the Today Count Show. If today’s conversation encouraged you, challenged you, or helped you grow, share it with someone in your circle because we’re better when we grow together.

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Remember, real change doesn’t happen someday, it happens today. Until next time, keep showing up, keep building, keep making today count.
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