Episode 212: From Chaos to Strategy: Jacob’s Growth, Wealth & Hard Lessons

—————————–

Today Counts Show Episode 212

Preview

Jim: But I think it’s used in witchcraft.

Matt: Oh, it’s a plant. What’s crazy is it’s extremely toxic.

Jim: Yeah. It’ll kill you.

Matt: Magical witchcraft, magical thing, but it was also a sedative or narcotic or something like it.

Winston: Basically, shrooms.

Matt: It’s a wild plant to be giving someone. I’ll say that.

Winston: It was ancient shrooms. It was their version of shrooms.

Jim: Well, it is because-

Matt: There you go.

Jim: -what I read is it causes hallucinations and drowsiness, and then to Matt’s point, poisoning.

Matt: You may not be mad that you had some mandrake on.

Appreciation of our Supporters

Winston: Hey, before we jump into the podcast, we want to thank all our donors and supporters who make the Today Count Show possible. It’s through your generosity that we’re able to shape leaders through this content and this podcast. Be sure to like, subscribe, and follow wherever you find yourself coming across this content. All right, let’s get to the podcast.

Introduction

Jim: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Genesis Project on the Today Count Show. Today, we have Pastor Matt Martin, Pastor Winston Harris. Going to shake things up a little bit today. Winston is going to read the first part of our chapter in Genesis chapter 30, and Pastor Matt’s going to read the balance, particularly when we get into this weird stuff about sheep turning certain colors and all of that.

But just to lay a groundwork today, we’re looking at something that happens even this day. Maybe not this exact story, but we’re going to see rivalry that comes between people who should be on the same side but apparently are not. We’re going to be looking at deceit. We’re going to be looking at leadership principles that deal with things when our identity is not clear. This should be a very interesting chapter of Genesis 30. So I’ll turn it over to Pastor Winston.

Genesis 30: Rivalry and Identity Crisis

Winston: Yeah, we’ll start in verse one. When Rachel saw that she wasn’t having any children for Jacob, she became jealous of her sister. She pleaded with Jacob, “Give me children or I’ll die.” That’s pretty dramatic right there off the bat. Then Jacob became furious with Rachel. “Am I God?” he asked. “He’s the one who has kept you from having children.” Then Rachel told him, “Take my maid Bilhah and sleep with her. She will bear children for me, and through her I can have a family too.”

So Rachel gave her servant Bilhah to Jacob as a wife, and he slept with her. Bilhah became pregnant and presented him with a son. Rachel named him Dan, for she said God has vindicated me. He has heard my request and given me a son. Then Bilhah became pregnant again and gave Jacob a second son. Rachel named him Naphtali, for she said, “I have struggled hard with my sister, and I’m winning.” That’s a pretty crazy statement right there.

Jim: Yeah.

Winston: Meanwhile, Leah realized that she wasn’t getting pregnant anymore. So she took her servant Zilpah and gave her to Jacob as a wife. Soon Zilpah presented him with a son. Leah named him Gad, for she said, “How fortunate I am.” Then Zilpah gave Jacob a second son, and Leah named him Asher, for she said, “What joy is mine. Now the other women will celebrate with me.”

Mandrakes, Bargaining, and Dysfunction

One day during the wheat harvest, Reuben found some mandrakes growing in a field and brought them to his mother, Leah. Rachel begged Leah, “Please give me some of your son’s mandrakes.” But Leah angrily replied, “Wasn’t it enough that you stole my husband? Now will you steal my son’s mandrakes too?” This is reality show energy here. I’m just getting stealing– One, I don’t really know what a mandrake is. Two, husbands are being stolen. There’s all kinds of stuff happening.

Rachel answered, “I will let Jacob sleep with you tonight if you give me some of the mandrakes.” You can’t make this stuff up. This is crazy.

So that evening, as Jacob was coming home from the fields, Leah went out to meet with him. “You must come and sleep with me tonight,” she said. “I have paid for you with some mandrakes that my son found.” So that night he slept with Leah. I’m just going to pause real quick to say, how does that make Jacob feel? Your value is mandrakes. I don’t know. That’s just like you’ve been paid for by–

What’s a mandrake?

Mandrakes is a fruit, right?

Jim: Well, I think it’s technically a vegetable.

Winston: That’s even better.

Jim: But I think it’s used in witchcraft.

Matt: It’s a plant. What’s crazy is it’s extremely toxic.

Jim: Yeah. It’ll kill you.

Matt: Magical witchcraft, magical thing around fertility I think.

Winston: Okay, that makes sense.

Matt: But it was also a sedative or narcotic or something like that.

Winston: Basically, shrooms.

Matt: It’s a wild plant to be giving someone. I’ll say that.

Winston: It was ancient shrooms. It was their version of shrooms.

Jim: Well, it is because-

Matt: There you go.

Jim: -what I read is it causes hallucinations and drowsiness, and then to Matt’s point, poisoning.

Matt: You may not be mad that you had some mandrake. I don’t know.

God’s Response and the Births Continue

Winston: Did they participate in the mandrakes? This is an interesting verse. And God answered Leah’s prayers. She became pregnant again and gave birth to a fifth son for Jacob. She named him Issachar, for she said, “God has rewarded me for giving my servant to my husband as a wife.” Then Leah became pregnant again and gave birth to a sixth son for Jacob. She named him Zebulun, for she said, “God has given me a good reward. Now my husband will treat me with respect, for I’ve given him six sons.” Later she gave birth to a daughter and named her Dinah.

Then God remembered Rachel’s plight and answered her prayers by enabling her to have children. She became pregnant and gave birth to a son. “God has removed my disgrace,” she said, and she named him Joseph, for she said, “May the Lord add yet another son to my life.”

Jim: And of course, Joseph is going to become a huge topic here in the coming chapters.

So just doing an overview of what you just read, Rachel envies Leah’s ability to bear children. She says, as you started laughing, she says to Jacob, “Give me children or I’ll die.”

Winston:  Pretty dramatic.

Jim: Both women begin using their servants to compete. In today’s terms, they would be their pimp.

Winston: Prostituted them out.

Jim: Yeah, prostituted them out. So even intimacy becomes transactional. That brings the whole mandrake situation into focus. What lengths would they go to have kids?

Winston: Bartering.

Identity, Validation, and Leadership Reflections

Jim: Then get this. I don’t know if you guys caught this, but the children are named as emotional statements: vindication, struggle, victory. So these ladies—am I being too harsh to say that they have an identity crisis? They have a worth issue. They have a validation issue.

Matt: Yeah. Everything is wrong with it, from their motives to why they’re attempting to do what they’re attempting to do, to how they’re naming them. God only knows the contention that was between them with all of this. But yet, the lineage that comes out of this—God still redeems.

Jim: Right, he does. God is still going to get done what he wants to get done for our benefit, even though this is as bad or worse than any of the trashy reality shows on television today.

Winston: Highly dysfunctional. It reminds me too of Abraham and Sarah, that generational approach to just I’m going to jack up God’s plans with my own plans and what I think I deserve and on my timeline. They just make a mess of it all, manipulating their servants.

Jim: From a leadership perspective, here are some thoughts on my outline. As leaders, where we can apply this is notice that they’re comparing impact instead of stewarding and managing the hand that they’ve been dealt. Then they’re needing visible wins to feel valuable. Then using people as means to prove something. When identity is unstable, everything becomes a scoreboard.

But before we turn the page and Pastor Matt continues the story, I think the hinge in this chapter is verse 22 where it says, “Then God remembered Rachel.” Did God forget about Rachel, or is that a figure of speech?

God’s Faithfulness and Human Misunderstanding

Matt: Earlier in Genesis, God remembered Noah. He never lost Noah, and in this, he never lost Rachel. I think some of it is God remembers the Hebrew word here, some of this on “remember”, is not that I forgot, but it’s a callback to the faithfulness of what I promised you. It’s God promised his lineage, his plan to be produced, and it’s through Jacob and it’s through Rachel. We say that as he forgot Rachel, and really it’s more he’s coming back to his faithfulness.

Jim: Yeah, and what I see is that both you and Winston are looking like professors with your glasses on. Looking very distinguished.

Matt: Yes.

Jim: I feel like I’m in a student posture.

Matt: You should be. I wore these glasses so I would sound smarter.

Winston: Those of you listening don’t even know he’s wearing glasses.

Jim: That’s right. For those of you not watching on YouTube, now all three of us have glasses on. I just put mine on to refer back to my notes. Another thing I want to say about God, our great, compassionate, gracious God, is even though both of these women, because when we go back to the story even of Leah, there is a similar statement, is there not, that is made? That God saw Leah, God blessed Leah, something like that.

Winston: Yeah, answered her prayers.

Compassion, Missteps, and Right Desire

Jim: Even though both women are competing and doing things in a human, fleshly, darker way, it did not turn God’s head from them. He’s still– In other words, God is like a wise parent in this story where the kid is misbehaving, but the parent sees below the surface to what’s really going on. I just think that’s pretty amazing because in society, we would have all kinds of things to say about these two women. God wouldn’t necessarily disagree with us, but in spite of it, he still ministers to these ladies.

So anyway, verse 22 is kind of the hinge. Do we want to continue on and Pastor Matt pick up with verse 25?

Winston: Well, I was just going to say, in relation to that, it’s almost like there was a right desire, wrong response. Their desire to have children wasn’t wrong, but how they went about it was wrong. God addressed the desire in spite of their response. They made a mess of what they were supposed to do with that desire. They didn’t wait on God, they projected that God forgot about them. And they projected that somehow there was a disgrace. Verse 23: “God has removed my disgrace.” Did God ever say they were disgraceful for not having children?

Compassion Over Judgment

Jim: No. But you make a really good point because we can be judging the ladies too harshly in a sense that– Am I being a chauvinist or worse to say that just like a man’s leaning to provide and protect, isn’t there a leaning in the female gender to have children? I’m not saying every woman, but not being able to do that would seem to be a normal–
Though there is competition, in the midst of focusing on the competition and the wrong ways dealing with it, we would be overlooking the fact that not having the same compassion as God where their sense of purpose in life has been ripped away from them with their plight.

Winston: They weren’t going to go start a business back then, so where else are they going to find purpose and validation?

Jim: Yes, they didn’t have those options.

Story Ad

Winston: Great leaders don’t ignore their past; they learn from it. Every decision you’ve made, every mistake, every win, every failure—it’s all shaping the leader you’re becoming. In Story: The Art of Learning from Your Past, you’ll discover how to turn experience into wisdom, setbacks into strategy, and pain into purpose. This isn’t just a book about reflection; it’s a playbook for growth. If you want to lead with clarity, humility, and confidence, your story matters. Learn from it. Grab your copy where books are sold.

Jacob’s Desire to Return Home

A Turning Point After Joseph’s Birth

Matt: This is a very interesting part of the chapter for so many reasons because we’re talking about how these women are reacting. Now we get to verse 25. It says, “After Rachel gave birth to Joseph, Jacob said to Laban, ‘Send me on my way so I can go back to my homeland. Give me my wives and children for whom I have served you, and I will be on my way. You know how much work I’ve done for you.’” He’s been here 14 plus years, and now he says, “Time to go home. I need to go where God’s called me to go.” What God was ultimately doing through Abraham and passing this on.”

Laban’s Response: Revelation, Manipulation, or Negotiation?

But Laban said to him, “If I have found favor in your eyes, please stay. I have learned by divination that the Lord has blessed me because of you.” So I have this divine revelation that I’m blessed because of Jacob. Would you call that revelation or manipulation?

Because he says, “Name your wages, I will pay them.”

Winston: The art of negotiation.

Matt: Or that. Is it divine revelation, manipulation or negotiation? Jim, let’s talk about this.

Leadership Reflection: Valuing Key People

If you have someone in your organization, if you have someone you’re trying to persuade, if you would, to that key team member, that person that is crushing it on the sales side or whatever part of your business that you have. You’re like, “Man, I’m better because of you.” That’s something leaders wrestle with.

Maybe Laban, even though he had his bumps and bruises, maybe he’s a little bit more of a leader than we give him credit for.

Jacob’s Negotiation Strategy

Divine Favor or Personal Shrewdness?

Jim: Yeah. I mean, it’s not even compromise really because something happened to Jacob. He was the clear loser in this deal. He sticks with it. But I think what we’re seeing is over time–

So here’s a back at you, Matt. Am I being overspiritual to say that is it Jacob’s shrewdness that is pulling out of the mud in this ordeal or is it God’s covenant?

Matt: Yeah or both working together as well. So Laban says, “Name your wages I’ll pay them.” Verse 29, Jacob said to him, “You know how I worked for you and how your livestock has fared under my care. The little you had before– It’s almost a jab right here. “The little you had before I came has increased greatly. And the Lord has blessed wherever I have been. But now, may I do something for my own household?”

A Leadership Principle: Readiness to Move Forward

Again, there’s that. There’s a leadership principle there. I can do this, I’m ready to fly.

And so he said, “What shall I give you?” He asked.

Jacob said, “Don’t give me anything,” Jacob replied. “But if you will do this one thing for me, I will go through your flocks and watch over them. Let me go through all your flocks today and remove from them every speckled or spotted sheep, every dark-colored lamb, and every spotted or speckled goat. They will be my wages, and my honesty will testify for me in the future. Whenever you check on the wages you pay me, any goat in my possession that is not speckled or spotted or any lamb that is not dark-colored will be considered stolen.”

Confusion Around the Agreement

Winston: I don’t know what’s happening.

Jim: So, Matt, you being the rancher, he supposedly is taking the inferior part of the flock. Am I reading that right?

Understanding the Flock Strategy

Cultural Context of Spotted and Speckled Animals

Matt: What’s funny is now it’s different. Now they call them dappled or spotted. These goats today actually bring a little more money because they’re unique. Honestly, it looks like something was wrong with them. So they would have looked as if they had defects, having the spots or being speckled. You would have wanted to get rid of those in this setting.

But the interesting part of the story really picks up here in just a moment. Jacob is making it easy to say, “If you see anything different than this, you’ll know that I stole it.”

“Agreed,” said Laban. “Let it be as you have said.”

Laban’s Preemptive Move

That same day, he removed all the streaked or spotted goats and all the speckled or spotted ones, all that had white on them, and all the dark-colored lambs, and placed them in the care of his sons. Then he put a three-day journey between himself and Jacob, while Jacob continued to tend the rest of Laban’s flocks.

The Unusual Breeding Method

Jacob’s Use of Striped Branches

In verse 37, I don’t know how science and biology fit into this. So this is just God right here.

Verse 37: Jacob, however, took fresh-cut branches from poplar, almond and plane trees and made white stripes on them by peeling the bark back, exposing the white inner wood of the branch. So basically, he peeled them and made them look striped. It’s what he made it look like.

Then he placed the peeled branches in all the watering troughs so they would be directly in front of the flocks when they came to drink. When the flocks were in heat and came to drink, they mated in front of the branches, and they bore young that were streaked or speckled or spotted.

Selective Breeding and Separation

Jacob set apart the young of the flock by themselves and made the rest face the streaked and dark-colored animals that belonged to Laban. Thus, he made separate flocks for himself and did not put them with Laban’s animals. Whenever the stronger females were in heat, Jacob would place the branches in the troughs in front of animals so they would mate near them. But if the animals were weak, he would not place them there. So the weak animals went to Laban, and the strong ones to Jacob.

In this way the man grew exceedingly prosperous and came to own large flocks, and female and male servants, and camels and donkeys.

Scientific Perspective and Practical Insight

The Improbability of Color Control

So here’s something interesting. As one who raises goats, when goats are in heat, they don’t pay attention to whether it’s spotted, speckled, striped, male, female, which end it is. They don’t care. They’re just going. The very fact that he placed a tree limb in front of them and, because of that limb, they came out spotted or speckled color is really unique.

You have very little control over the color of the goat you’re producing. It’s very minimal.

Real-Life Breeding Examples

I have one billy goat that, when he mates with any of the nannies, I have brown ones, light brown, dark brown. I have black, black with a white face, solid black, black with a white spot. And I have a brown one with four black feet. I have one that has three white feet. I have one that’s really red. So the fact that they’re coming out spotted is unbelievable. That is God’s hand on Jacob.

Whatever the limb holds, maybe it’s God, whatever that is, but knowing what I know, it’s interesting. It’s not like a bloodline being preserved. It’s not like we have this type of cow or this type of goat or this type of horse. We’re talking about color, which you simply don’t control. So that’s very intriguing.

Skill and Observation in Animal Care

The other fact is that Jacob had learned a lot about taking care of animals. You can do this for a while, and I can do it now. I can walk out and I can tell you the strong ones first to the weak ones in a matter of seconds. I could separate them all easily. So Jacob knew what he was doing. There was no accident. He knew what he was looking for.

But the spotted and striped, dappled—that’s a whole thing there. I’ve never seen that in Scripture until a couple of months ago while I was reading through this. Raising goats made me think of it because you have no control.

Jim: That’s bizarre for sure.

Winston: It makes me never want to have goats.

Prosperity Through Stewardship and Purpose

Selective Breeding as a Strategy

Matt: Jacob really did get into selecting the weaker goats and the stronger goats. He got into a selective breeding process, which is how you become very successful in doing this. Scripture is clear that he became—how does it say it in verse 43? “In this way, the man grew exceedingly prosperous.”

He was able to do that by stewarding the knowledge that he had about what he was working with. There’s a principle there that we can live by. He learned a craft and a trade that would seem silly to most, and he learned the details. When you’re breeding goats, you don’t choose the color. That just doesn’t happen.

God’s Blessing and Human Responsibility

I use the same two billies for all my breeding, and all my goats come out in multiple different colors—red, brown, black. I get all these different colors, and I’m not choosing that. I’m just as surprised as anybody when it comes out.

Jacob is over here, and God is blessing it because of this limb that has been peeled off. He’s keeping all these streaked and spotted goats. I think Scripture calls them dappled goats. But looking at that, he took the stronger and the weaker, and if you work with them long enough, you can quickly spot that. So he was seeing it quickly and he’d separate them all. He was sending the weaker ones back to Laban, which were probably solid-colored.

Fulfillment of God’s Purpose

So he wasn’t necessarily cheating the system. He was doing what he said he would do. And in the midst of all that, God still blesses him. Why? The question I come up against is “Why is god doing this?” It’s to fulfill His purpose. It’s to fulfill God’s purpose and to fulfill it through Jacob. We’re going to see what happens with Joseph and we’re going to see what happens as the story goes.

I love the detail that Scripture gives us about this. It’s such a unique part of the story that adds so much color to what we read and how we understand this. Just part of the Scripture that the simple things that continues to amaze me.

Final Takeaways: Trust vs. Striving

Leadership Insecurity and Growth in Difficult Seasons

Learning in Seasons of Constraint

Jim: Winston and I recorded a podcast earlier today about how insecurity in leadership can really mess us up from the inside out. Theologically, I believe we’re straight down the middle that in spite of our human weaknesses, God continues to show Himself faithful in the process.

Isn’t it fascinating, as you were pointing out, Matt, that while Jacob was in prison, so to speak, figuratively under the umbrella of Laban, he does learn a ton. That’s going to benefit him for the rest of his life. Sometimes we only see the negative of what’s going and we don’t see the positive.

The Impact of Insecurity on Leadership

Back to insecurity: from a leadership perspective, when we let insecurity distort things, relationships become tools, blessings become competitions, and people lose sight of purpose.

We talked earlier that one of the things that we could possibly do to help us with purpose is that– I wonder if we gave Jacob an opportunity and said, “Hey, those years that you were under the yoke of Laban, that season that you were under the yoke of Laban, what would you name it? What would you call it?”

How did he deal with it psychologically? How did he deal with that? As you guys were saying, Matt and Winston, as you guys were saying earlier on in the chapter, or maybe as Matt was reading, this seems like manipulation versus manipulation. So maybe not a seed or root of bitterness, but definitely guardedness, definitely lack of trust, right? There’s definitely that.

Trust, Control, and the Cost of Distrust

How Distrust Slows Progress

And that’s what you mentioned, Matt. In the world of business and leadership, when you don’t have trust, things move slowly. And it’s like, okay, I’ll give you two. You give me two. You take little steps, you can’t run because you don’t trust. So you take these careful little steps.

Winston: Calculated.

Jim: Calculated. That’s a good word, calculated steps. But this whole chapter was about polygamy, I guess, if that’s what you want to call it, manipulation, jealousy, bargaining. But back to Matt’s point, in all of these chapters, it doesn’t stop God from continuing to do what He’s going to do. The encouraging part for me is that I don’t need to be perfect, but I can’t justify my dysfunction either. How do you live in between those two things?

Trusting God Amid Brokenness

Making Sense of “All Things Work Together”

Winston: Yeah, I think of Romans 8:28. God works all things together for the good of those who are called according to His purpose. Sometimes we say that verse, and it’s like, what does that actually look like? I think you could argue Genesis shows us what it looks like. There’s a lot of all things happening here, and God is still using all of these things to achieve the purposes that He wants through these broken people.

Jim: And as humans, can we rest in that? Can we trust that?

Trusting Through Others’ Brokenness

Winston: I think it’s easier for us to trust it when it’s our brokenness, but when we’re on the other side of somebody else’s brokenness, we’re like, can God use that?

Jim: Because now we become a victim, and we are outraged, and we protest, and we’ve been mistreated. You’ve been persecuted.

The Fundamental Attribution Error in Leadership

Extending Grace to Ourselves vs Others

Winston: Pastor Matt, you were sharing in a leadership teaching yesterday about the phrase you use with the Working Genius, about the grace you give others but not the grace you give yourself.

Matt: Yeah, so with fundamental attribution error, where I allow myself more grace. If someone cuts me off in traffic, then they’re a bad driver, they’re distracted, they’re on their phone, they’re a jerk, whatever. But if I cut someone off in traffic, then I had a kid crying in the back seat. Something fell into the floorboard. I just didn’t see you. I got a phone call with bad news. I’m running late. All these excuses we give ourselves. What we end up doing, we end up judging others based on what we think about them.

Judging Actions vs Intentions

Jim: If I’m late to a meeting, it’s because of bad traffic. It’s because I’m really important and had to do lots of stuff. You come late to a meeting, you’re a slacker, lazy.

Matt: You don’t plan well. That’s exactly right. We all live in that. The simplest form of that I’ve heard is we judge others by their actions, but we judge ourselves by our intentions. That’s probably so true. We look at them and we give them no grace, no benefit of the doubt, but when we slip up, we’re like, “Well, what I meant to say or do–” That’s very true.

God’s Blessing in “Less Than” Beginnings

Starting with What Others Discard

The other piece that jumps out to me on this is, I’m going to go back to how God blessed Jacob in this chapter. There are two places in here, around verse 25 to verse 30 or so, where he’s telling Laban, when I got here, you didn’t have a whole lot, but because of the way I’ve cared for them, your flocks and your animals, you’ve now increased greatly.

One of the beliefs, and I could feel very confident in this statement, is because of these speckled or streaked goats, there would be less of them because they would have been culled. They would have been pushed to the side. We want the solid color. So Jacob started with less than. Even when he starts over again, he’s starting with less than. He’s starting with things that would be considered less than in that culture, in that society. And yet in verse 43, we see that in this way, the man grew exceedingly prosperous and came into his own because of what God was doing.

God’s Ability to Multiply What Seems Insufficient

So, if we’ll allow it, God will take what seems like not enough in our leadership, in our conversations, in our ability to lead our companies, our teams, our people, and He will begin to prosper that in ways that we never dreamed possible.

Leadership Challenges and Mindset Shifts

Stop Comparing, Start Being Faithful

Jim: These are high expectations, but three points that I’m looking at that kind of challenge us when you look at this story. Again, it’s easy for us to hover above the story and look down upon it versus live in it.

With that said, the challenge is at least a few things. Stop measuring yourself against others. Another one is start measuring faithfulness to your assignment. It’s funny how, for those of us who spend time thinking about our lives, thinking about purpose, we can write these beautiful purpose statements and we can set these goals, and we understand the striving that’s going to have to happen to accomplish these goals, and then we have the obstacles against those goals. But for the majority of that, we’re choosing that.

Reframing Unexpected Challenges as Assignments

But when God allows or drops something else on our lap, our response can be very different, not seeing it as an assignment. We will strive after something we want, but when we get something that we don’t want, we don’t see that as an assignment. We see that as a head-on collision, a curse, a punishment.

Winston: A burden.

Jim: A burden. At least that’s me. I know what I want to do, and I know the obstacles I’m going to face. That’s fine, but don’t bring anything else. Don’t t-bone me. I don’t want to be t-boned. And if I get t-boned, I do not see that as an assignment, but I need to reconsider that.

Replacing Striving with Disciplined Trust

And then finally, this is a health idea. Striving is such a dangerous thing, so replace striving with disciplined trust. Who was it who wrote the book Ruthless Trust? That’s one of the most dynamic books that I have read that places absolute, total trust in God, who He is, what He’s doing, and what He’s going to do. If I were to actually grasp just a portion of that, how much different my life would be on a day-to-day basis.

All right, we’ll move on to chapter 31 next time. God bless you both. Thanks for joining me.

Outro

Winston: Thanks for spending part of your day with us on the Today Count Show. If today’s conversation encouraged you, challenged you, or helped you grow, share it with someone in your circle because we’re better when we grow together. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and stay connected with us on Instagram, YouTube, LinkedIn, and Facebook. And remember, real change doesn’t happen someday, it happens today. Until next time, keep showing up, keep building, keep making today count.
—————————–