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Today Counts Show Episode 157

Preview

Jim Piper: Believe it or not, a bully can be a gift giver. They can be generous. This behavior from a jerk goes far beyond a gift exchange. They will hold this over your head for what they did for you, what they gave you, as long as you–

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Winston Harris: Hey everybody, before we jump into today’s episode, we’d like to recognize all those who make this podcast possible. The Lead Today is Show is supported by all the generous donors of the Lead Today Community. Thank you so much for investing in shaping leaders through this podcast. Be sure to like and subscribe on whatever platform you are watching or listening to today. Alright, let’s jump into the podcast.

Intro

Jim Piper: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Today Count Show. This is a solo episode. In other words, it’s just yours truly. But I’ve been working on this particular topic for probably a couple of months. I’ve entitled it The Jerk, The Joker, and The Jackass. I’m directing this mostly to leaders but really to everybody because we all deal with relationships. I’ve got my notes here pretty close to me because I want to be as exact as possible and not shoot from the hip, so if it sounds like I’m reading, well, it’s because maybe I am at that moment. Please forgive me here.

But I do believe that this is an important topic for all of us. I’m not just mentioning The Jerk, The Joker, and The Jackass, but also ancient wisdom’s antidote to dealing with these personality types. That’s a nice way to say it, but sometimes I can be a slow learner. I can be slow to learn. I grew up thinking that most people are good, and I still want to believe that’s true. Really, I do.

I also want to believe that with God’s help, I can change, people can change, we can overcome obstacles and excuses. Though I’ve had encounters with some, let’s say, folks who are having a bad day, I would simply let it go, as my dad would always say and still does to this day, “Everybody has a story, so give them a little bit of grace. Give them a little bit of room if they act unbecomingly.”

Looking back, though, there was a certain level of hubris within me, where I somehow believed that I could influence and change the mind and behaviors of just about anybody. And I was wrong. Absolutely wrong. After 65 years on this planet, I still believe, as the good book says, all humans have been created in the image and likeness of God. I do believe that. However, that same book teaches that men and women have amazing power to choose who they’re going to be, and many of them become fools. The Proverbs talk a lot about that, which I’ll refer to once or twice by the time we get done.

In fact, if they work hard at it, meaning a fool, they have the ability to sever their conscience. That’s what scripture teaches. There seems to be a category of people that I’ve already suggested who just cannot seem to climb the slope of maturity, where one gains a higher elevation to see beyond their own selfishness and anecdotal biases. Let me put it another way: No matter what relational, psychological, or spiritual skills that you or I think we might possess, we cannot — you cannot — transform somebody who has cured themselves into a fool. A fool, I guess, is the broad description I would use for the jerk, the joker, and the jackass.

Now, that doesn’t sound very Christian of me, I know. It really doesn’t. But some of that is cultural. Some of that is because the culture has a way of projecting narrow definitions upon any subgroup within our population. Now, if you give me a chance, what I’m about to share might resonate with you and might provide some encouragement, empowerment, and practical guidance for navigating through the rapids of difficult personalities.

I have literally worked with thousands of people. That is not hyperbole. That is not exaggeration. In the roles that I have played in this life so far, that God has graced me with, I have found some of these things just to be true, but also some of the antidotes to be helpful. So, if you do find it helpful, then maybe this talk, this episode, is Christian after all. I do believe that all truth, whether it’s found in scripture or not, is God’s truth.

Three Personalities of Difficult People

Difficult people are a reality in life. They are, whether in our workplaces, our social circles, or even within our families. We inevitably encounter individuals who test our patience, challenge our peace, and sometimes outright obstruct our progress. Not all difficult people are the same. In fact, some are abrasive, some are disruptive, and some are simply exhausting. Now, to help navigate these people dynamics, as I suggested earlier, let’s categorize them into three personalities: jerk, joker, and jackass.

And I dare say I have met a few that I think are deserving of all three labels. Perhaps I have been one of these three from time to time. I think I have room to believe that’s possible and maybe probable, particularly in certain situations at times when my maturity or my best mind was not in gear. But understanding who these people are, how they operate, and what strategies to employ in dealing with them can make all the difference in maintaining peace (which you need), productivity (which you need), and personal well-being.

The Jerk

So, let’s start with the jerk. I’m going to call this the aggressive, self-serving personality. The jerk is pretty easy to spot. They bulldoze through conversations, they dismiss others’ opinions, they’re always right, and are often motivated by their own interests without concern for the impact that they have on those around them. They’re blunt, impatient, and frequently condescending. In short, they are bullies.

How do you navigate the jerk?

How do you navigate the jerk, the bully? I’m going to give you several things. I won’t have a lot to say about each one, but hopefully, these will help:

1) Set clear boundaries.

I know you’ve heard that before, but let me explain. Jerks thrive on dominance, so establishing firm boundaries is crucial. Be direct about what behavior you will and will not tolerate. That’s the only way you can deal with a bully. The more ground that you give up, the more they take and the more they want.

2) Don’t take it personally.

What I mean is, they’re really good at guilt trips, so avoid taking it personally. A jerk’s behavior is often more about themselves than it is about you. So recognizing this can help depersonalize their actions against you, even though it feels, for example, like they might be attacking you for letting them down. Somehow they become the victim. They use that as one of their weapons and point out anything negative that you do or have done, or anything they could possibly remember, even though they are quite blind to their own actions and faults. They don’t recall or care about their track record.

All right, so number one, set clear boundaries. Number two, don’t take it personally.

3) Communicate with strength and clarity.

Avoid passive responses. Be firm but professional when engaging with them, but don’t use too many words. Trust me, that’s a mistake I’ve made — trying to talk people into seeing things differently. It’s a waste of your breath and only encourages more of what you don’t want: an ongoing verbal wrestling match. Sometimes the best answer you can give is a clear and simple yes or no without explanation.

Remember, they don’t care about your explanation anyway. They don’t care about your reason. They just flat don’t care. That is the hard stinking truth. It’s only pride that keeps some of us in these relationships. I’ll get to that here in a little bit.

4) Limit engagement when possible.

Minimize unnecessary interactions to avoid unnecessary conflict. I’ll say it another way: Avoid a jerk like the plague. Sometimes you can’t help it, you’ll just run into them in life, but some you already know. So, you can take direction and plans to avoid them. Jerks are not just aggressive; they are also self-serving and conniving. The clever ones use things like flattery, hospitality, and generosity to buy your loyalty. Believe it or not, a bully can be a gift giver. They can be generous. I’ll speak of that here in just a second.

Now, while it is kind of human to give gifts and expect them in kind, although we would never recommend that, would we? When we give a gift, we should give it for the sake of giving it and let it go at that. So, I’ll say it again: While it is human to expect gifts to be returned in kind, this behavior from a jerk goes far beyond a gift exchange. They will hold this over your head for what they did for you, what they gave you, as long as you let them.

In other words, their motives are corrupt, and many are not even aware of it at the time. They really do think they’re sometimes giving it out of the goodness of their heart, but they will quickly pull it out of their inventory of good deeds and slam it in your face as if somehow you are now indebted to them.

Let’s look at an ancient proverb. Proverbs 23, the first part of that chapter, provides a clear warning. It says, “When you sit down to dine with a ruler…” Now, when you think of a ruler, just think of somebody with means, somebody with gifts, somebody who has the ability to woo you into their presence. So, it says, “When you sit down to dine with a ruler, consider carefully what is before you. Don’t desire his choice food, for that food is deceptive.” In other words, the gifts from a jerk have strings attached.

5) Know when to walk away.

If their presence becomes consistently toxic and unmanageable, it may be time to distance yourself completely — to cut them out and cut them off because you’ve already gotten yourself unequally yoked. You’ve tied yourself up, trapped yourself, and need to escape. That means, remove them as much as possible from every form of contact: personally, social media, phone contacts, social clubs, whatever.

So, that’s the jerk. If you’ve got questions, you know, and if ands or buts, I invite you to send those to me at jim@leadaycommunity.com. All right, I want to move on now from The Jerk. There are overlaps with these three: The Jerk, The Joker, and The Jackass. Yet, they are different.

The Joker

The Joker, I will say, is the disruptive, unreliable personality. They’re destructive in their own way.

Now, at first glance, The Joker seems like a welcome contrast to the jerk. After all, some of them can appear fun, the life of the party, light-hearted. They just love a good laugh. They have that knack about them; they’re usually quick-witted. However, their incessant need to be the center of attention, or their inability to take anything seriously, or to steward anything, to manage anything, to do anything that’s hard — these are the things that they struggle with. So it makes them unreliable, frustrating, and downright disrespectful.

How do you navigate a Joker?

So how do you navigate a Joker? I’ve got five ideas:

1) Redirect their energy

If their humor is disrupting productivity, steer their attention toward constructive contributions. I know what you’re thinking, but let me finish. Many will not respond favorably because they will see it as a burden. They will see being productive, doing something hard, as a burden. The thought of accomplishing something hard doesn’t make sense to them. It is not emotionally appealing to them. They pursue fun, self-gratification, and ease. They’re typically the get-rich-quick schemers, to give you an example.

2) Address the issues directly

If they continually cross the line, let them know clearly and respectfully. Yet, make sure that they know how their actions impact the group or impact you. Separate the Joker’s value as a person from their behavior, but clearly point to the behavior. Point out the negative behavior as unacceptable.

Now, believe it or not, even when dealing with a physically grown person, you may have to suggest what appropriate behavior looks like. The burden may end up falling on you, after all, to say, “Instead of doing this, maybe do this, or this, or this.” It sounds ridiculous that you’d have to take that kind of responsibility, but once you get entwined in a relationship like that, unfortunately, this is kind of what happens.

3) Call for maturity when needed

Remind them that while humor has its place, there are times when serious focus is required. They will try to fluff things off and brush things away. They will probably acknowledge this need for seriousness and a serious tone in their mind but will drift away pretty quickly to a different environment. Maybe that’s not such a bad thing. They do tend to find new associations pretty quickly. The problem is, they just don’t stick. They go from group to group, place to place, community to community, job to job.

4) Determine their intentions

Some Jokers use humor as a shield to avoid responsibility. They just won’t take ownership. They won’t let fault land with them. Some use humor also as a way to hide hurt, woundedness, and anger. That can be a sign where maybe we can dig a little deeper and be of help. In either case, accountability is what we want to do. We want to hold them accountable as best as we can.

5) Decide if they belong in your circle

Similar to dealing with a jerk, you finally get to that place where their antics undermine your progress or create unnecessary chaos or harm. It may be time to reassess their place in your life or your organization. Bottom line: if their lack of responsibility causes harm to relationships, assets, and brands, then maybe it’s time to invite them to leave.

The Jackass

And finally, I get to the one you’ve probably been waiting for: The Jackass. The Jackass is a little bit different in that they are really good at being stubborn, and they’re just simply unteachable. The Jackass is the person who refuses to listen, insists they are always right, and digs their heels in at the slightest challenge. They resist change, argue for the sake of arguing, and reject constructive criticism. They’re simply contrary.

How do you navigate a Jackass?

So how do you navigate a Jackass? All right, this one’s tough.

1) Don’t engage in the power struggle

They love to debate for the sake of being right. Don’t take the bait. Even if you think it’s absurd and you can easily correct them, don’t take the bait. Don’t get into ridiculous discussions. Don’t get into flat Earth discussions. And don’t get into discussions about how we didn’t go to the Moon, and you can, of course, take that in all kinds of different places. This is your warning sign that you are dealing with a person with anger, hotheads, or fools. Proverbs 15:18 says this point clearly: “A wrathful man stirs up discord.” Why would you want to be around anyone who simply finds a way to create discord? But “one slow to anger calms strife.”

2) Use questions to challenge their thinking

Rather than confronting head-on, questions is a good way to go. Ask questions that lead them to reflect on their stance. “What brought you to that conclusion?” “What makes you think that?” “Can you help me understand?” If they sincerely participate in this kind of banter, this kind of conversation, you might have hope. What would that look like? Well, it’s really simple, if they’re able to come to some possibilities that they might be wrong and admit that aloud, you’ve got hope here in this relationship. In that case, maybe we’ve been too hard and they’re just a young jackass and can maybe grow into — At least we can use a different term like donkey. Then maybe they can grow into a stallion or something like that with the metaphor.

3) Stay calm and unmoved when you’re dealing with a Jackass

The more emotionally reactive you are, the more fuel they have to continue their stubbornness. This is where it’s similar to The Jerk: the more ground you give, the more they will demand. But don’t be surprised if your lack of reacting or self-defense itself causes a new kind of frustration in them. In other words, you guys, sometimes, there’s just no pleasing them. If you argue, it’s going to get louder, it’s going to get longer, and it’s going to get out of control. If you try to go softer and silent–

The Bible makes it pretty clear too. I didn’t include these Proverbs, but you might be familiar. There’s a backtrack proverbs. I don’t remember chapter and verse, but basically it says, “If you let a fool do whatever they want, that’s going to be trouble.” And then like the next verse says, “If you try to correct a fool, well, that will be trouble.” In other words, once you are engaged with a fool, it is a losing proposition.

So, a lot of these suggestions are based upon the fact that maybe you’re early in the relationship and there’s hope. But if you are very tempted to not just say, “He acted like a jerk. She acted like a joke. He might be a jackass.” But if the relationship has gone on long enough where you can clearly label somenody as one of these three (or more), then often you’ve got to take that exit door, however that looks. Anyway, I’ll go on.

So, don’t be surprised, even if you use other tactics like being calm, not argumentative, using careful tones and soft tones, and even silence. Don’t be surprised if they complain about that. They want drama. Temperance — in other words, moderation — is not part of their makeup.

Number 4, still dealing with the Jackass.

4) Give them space to save face

You’ve probably heard that before. Sometimes they will simply double down to avoid embarrassment. In other words, they will make themselves look more stupid the more they go just so they don’t have to admit anything. Offering a way out with dignity can help. It is wise to think about how you might do this before a meeting, if ever possible.

If you know you’re going into a meeting with a Jackass, you might want to think about your exit plan before you go into it. Often, that exit plan is giving them the high road to get out. So, you might need to work ahead of time on tone, words, phrases, and identify when you have those “off-ramps.” The more decisions you can make ahead of time, the better equipped you will be to engage in these kinds of meetings.

Number 5, this is the same as the previous two:

5) Know when to move on

Some people simply won’t change. If they consistently drain energy without any hope of growth, it’s best to limit or remove their influence from your life. You see, in adult relationships, everybody has to have the responsibility to grow, to change, to compromise, to agree to disagree, and to move on together. To find places of agreement, and to try to work together. But as soon as somebody steps out of that and it’s their way or the highway, that’s when you have irreconcilable relationships. Alignment is just so important in everything that we do.

When do you eliminate versus navigate?

Alright, let me talk a little bit about when to eliminate versus navigate. I want to be as clear as I can here. In my experience, in negotiating conflict, whether it be with boards, leadership teams, or relationships in general, not every difficult person needs to be eliminated from your life — nor should they. I’ll talk about that at the very end because some of you right now might be tempted to make a list of six or seven people that you’re going to cut off. If that’s what you’ve taken away from this, then I’ve failed. It should be a last resort to cut somebody out or cut them off, send them down the road, but it is something that some of us don’t do, and we suffer for it when it does need to be done.

So, let me say this again: Not every difficult person needs to be eliminated from your life. Some can be managed with the right approach, while others will only continue to be sources of stress, toxicity, and stagnation. Here’s a quick way to assess whether someone should be navigated or eliminated. Let’s talk about navigated.

Navigate

Navigate this relationship if there’s potential for growth or change, no matter how slow. If there is growth and change, even though it’s slower than you want, you might want to take a look in the mirror at yourself. Number 2, if the relationship is necessary. I find it very sad that there are counselors out there giving you the easy way out of family relationships. I don’t understand that. Now, I know on each extreme, there might be a time for that to happen, particularly if there’s physical danger, something like that, or emotional distress. I’ll get to that in a minute. I’m already moving to my last section before I should.

So, navigate if there’s potential for growth or change. Second, the relationship is necessary, meaning a coworker and family members that you can’t avoid. Avoiding family members is a mistake. I’ll get to that in a little bit. Regulating is different than avoiding.

Third, the behavior is situational, rather than a defining characteristic. Whenever I read that, I think about neighbors, I think about disagreements on teams, I think about an argument that happened or a mistake at work. A lot of these things can be fiery and difficult. They need to be worked through.

Eliminate

Eliminate if they consistently damage your mental, emotional, physical, or professional well-being. And I’m assuming that we’re being honest here because all relationships take work. I haven’t talked about forgiveness. That’s a whole ‘nother podcast. If you don’t have a track record of forgiving, you might be one of these three people. You cannot survive in this planet in a healthy if you have not employed forgiveness, if you have sought forgiveness from somebody else. Again, that’s whole ‘nother episode.

Eliminate and the keyword there is consistently damaging. Second, they refuse to acknowledge or correct their behavior. Meaning that you might have a disagreement about their behavior in the past, but if that same behavior is repeating itself, then obviously that’s a problem. Third, their presence causes more harm than good, outweighing any potential value they bring.

Dealing with difficult people is a part of life

So let’s say this, dealing with difficult people is a part of life, so get a grip on that. Get a grip on that — you’re going to have relationships that are filling, meaning you have people in your life that fill you up. They make you laugh, they encourage you, they help you. That’s great. You’re also going to have people in your life that are neutral. It’s a give-and-take thing, and a lot of friendships fall into that category.

Three kinds of relationships

Let me start over and explain this again. There are generally three kinds of relationships outside of these dysfunctions I’m talking about.

Filling Relationships

You have filling relationships. Those are the ones that fill you up. When you are around them, you feel so much better. You go home stronger and happier. That’s great. We all need those kinds of people whether they fill you with knowledge, encouragement, companionship, or laughter—whatever it is. So, you have filling relationships. Hopefully, you have those in your life because you need them.

Neutral Relationships

Then, there’s neutral relationships – Those are kind of like friendships. It’s give and take. Sometimes it’s a neighbor—you help a neighbor, and the neighbor helps you. It’s just kind of– Maybe there’s some transformation in it, but a lot of it’s transactional. But it’s positive transactional. Your transformational relationships are usually those filling ones. The neutral relationships are a little more transactional, but they’re not bad. They’re good, they’re give and take.

Transformational Relationships

And then the other transformational ones, believe it or not, are draining relationships. If you have people in your life that are draining to you, I’m not necessarily saying that they are the jerk, the joker, and the jackass. You’re supposed to have draining relationships in your life because you are to be a filling relationship for them. You’ve got to have all three of these kinds of relationships. You need to be filled, and you need to fill. In between those are those more, like golfing buddies. That’s the give-and-take. That’s not a transforming relationship, but filling relationships will help transform you, and draining relationships will help transform you by helping transform others.

Alright, that is not what this podcast is about. This podcast episode is about dealing with jerks, jokers, and jackasses. That is not what this podcast is about. This episode of the podcast is dealing with jerks, jokers, and jackasses. Just want to make that differentiation. So, whether it’s standing your ground with a jerk, redirecting the joker’s energy, or disengaging from a jackass, the key is to recognize that your time, your energy, and your well-being are worth protecting.

Conclusion

Here’s my little conclusion speech that I said was going to come at the end. Ultimately, elevating your own leadership, your peace, and your productivity requires knowing when to navigate and when to eliminate. Surround yourself with people who challenge you in healthy ways, encourage growth, and contribute to your personal and professional development. And when in doubt, remember: you don’t have to carry dead weight. Let it go so you can move forward.

Here’s the part that might confuse you, but I have to inject some spiritual conviction into this talk. My fear is that we let certain people into our lives that we shouldn’t, but just as fearful for me is that we cut people out that we’re not supposed to. Here’s my statement of moderation, my statement of temperance, my statement of caution. This is what I would call you to really meditate on. Here it goes. One more piece of advice.

Intentionally Choosing People

For those challenging personalities in your life that you cannot and perhaps should not eliminate: you will do well by consciously and intentionally choosing them. Meaning, I choose you. In your mind and in your spirit, you’re looking at somebody who is not physically with you, but you know will be physically with you here, or there, or everywhere. Whether you’re a praying person or whether you can think abstractly, you picture that person and you love on them, you choose them. You say, “I choose you. I choose to love you, I choose to persevere in this relationship, I choose to help you. I choose to be honest with you, I choose to be strong when you’re weak, I choose you, I love you, I believe you’re supposed to be in my life.”

Now, that takes faith, and if you’re a person lacking faith, I get it but that too is another episode for another day. So, let me repeat this carefully: for those challenging personalities in your life who you cannot and perhaps should not eliminate, you will do well by consciously and intentionally choosing them. To choose them means to recognize them as important to you and perhaps your family, your neighborhood, your church community, or your work. You realize that not all of your relationships will not nor should not be simple or easy, nor should they be. We are here to help one another as much as being helped in return. If you are bothered by these types of relationships, stop right now and go through the process of choosing them. You might have to choose them every day.

If you listened to the podcast that my wife Rhonda and I did on marriage, we’ve been married here in another week or two, a couple of weeks, for 45 years. And one of the things we do really well is that we didn’t just choose each other through vows at the altar of the church one day 45 years ago; we choose each other every single day. That is leverage. That is an advantage when you do that because you make a commitment.

But I’m repeating myself here, but we are here to help others as much as being helped in return. If you are bothered by these types of relationships, stop right now and go through the process of choosing them in your head and in your heart. Pray for them and determine to be a blessing in their life as best you can. For this is sometimes the right and godly way to live.

Outro

Winston Harris: Thank you for joining us here at The Today Count Show. Be sure to like and subscribe on whatever platform you listen to or watch, so you don’t miss any content. Stay tuned for more coming soon.
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