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Today Counts Show Episode 159

Preview

Richard Mireles: We were on the verge of death one night. My cellmate was on the bottom bunk asking to me to not let him die. He’s turning pale, he was a big guy and I’m thinking, “How am I going to not let him die when I’m dying?” And I’m 21 years old and my life is flashing before my eyes. It’s 1999. I’m not going to get a chance to go before the parole board until 2019. I’m the only one of my family that gone to prison and here I am with 25 years to life and now I’m going to die in prison as a drug addict. Grey Davis, the governor at the time, said the only way a life where I ever leave prison is in a pine box.

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Introduction and Meeting Richard Mireles

Jim Piper: Hey, welcome everybody. Welcome back to the Today Count Show. You know who this is. This is Jim Piper, your host. I am so excited about today’s podcast. I want to introduce you in just a second to Richard Mireles. And I’m going to butcher this so he will correct it in a minute. The reason why this podcast is so important is because if you care anything about, I don’t even know what the right word is, rehabilitation, second chances, working together, all of us as humans to do the best that we can and all of the context and situations, if you care about what leadership really is, I think down to some of the granular issues that happens in our life, I think this will be interesting to you.

But basically what Richard does is as people are released from prison, he helps them re-enter society, I think. I think that’s what he does. And when I looked at his organization, which he’ll tell you about in just a little bit, they have programs and whatnot. And the reason why this has become of interest to me lately is because I have a dear, dear friend who the news is he could be coming out and he’s been in there. He’s been in prison for, he’s been in there for a minute. And it’s very emotional to think that he is going to be able to have a second chance. But Richard, welcome to the Today Count Show. So good to meet you.

Richard Mireles: It’s great to meet you, too.

Jim Piper: Now you live in northern California, is that right?

Richard Mireles: Yeah, I live in Rancho Cordova, California.

Jim Piper: Okay, okay. Are you from California?

Richard Mireles: I am, born and raised.

Jim Piper: Okay, I was born at the Naval Hospital in San Diego, and grew up in Southern California. I could never really become a Dodger fan, which is really weird. So I’ve always been a kind of a closet Padre fan, but being such a small market they’ve had, but to make matters worse, I’m a Tiger fan, because my family originally came from Michigan. So two small markets. And so baseball is a love of mine, but it’s tough to be a fan. And the Oakland A’s now, I mean, of course the Oakland A’s and the Tigers in 1970s, that was a hate fest there. I don’t know if you’re old enough to remember that, but bats used to be thrown and there was some good old days. Good old days.

Sparky Anderson’s Leadership Lesson

Richard Mireles: Well, I was born in Bakersfield, California, I also used to live in San Diego as well. I’m a lifelong Giants fan, but when you said Detroit Tigers, it reminded me of the great Sparky Anderson.

Jim Piper: Yes, sir.

Richard Mireles: And there’s quote that I carry with me everywhere I go that he said, “There’s three types of players. He said those that need a kick in the butt, there’s the type that needs a kick in the butt, the kind that needs a pat on the back, and the kind that needs to be left alone.”

Richard Mireles: I’ve been that person in different phases of my life. And today I’m self-motivated and can be left alone to do the work without the pat on the back or the kick in the butt.

Jim Piper: That’s a pretty great leadership lesson right there for our listeners. I mean, some need a kick in the butt, a pat on the back, and some need to be left alone. I think that’s probably true, not just in baseball, but on our teams, whatever we’re doing. Richard, how did you get involved? Well, first of all, tell us a little bit about your organization maybe. And then I’m really interested how in the world you got involved in all this.

CROP Organization’s Vision and Inception

Richard Mireles: On your email, it said, Genesis 11. So I came here and thought we were going to talk about Genesis 11, but that’s all right. So, hey, we could go, the biblical route or the re entry route.

Jim Piper: The Tower of Babel, yeah.

Richard Mireles: Yeah, the Tower of Babel. It’s the human condition, man’s self-sufficiency versus God. And what we realized in creating CROP Organization, Creating Restorative Opportunities and Programs,, which was founded by me and three close friends, another close friend joined us soon after we were all released, but I was the first one at CROP Organization to be released from prison. And today we have over 27 employees and our organization exists in Oakland in the Bay Area and in Los Angeles and Whittier.

We’ve had this idea coming out that we wanted it to be the Stanford, the Harvard of reentry. When we were envisioning this, we taught ourselves how to cast a vision for a future worth having. We taught ourselves how to cast a vision for an unprecedented future while we were incarcerated. So imagine me and my three co-founders walking laps and learning to operate out of our imagination and not our memory.

On our memory, nothing would be possible. I’d be out here doing gardening, landscaping or construction or working at a restaurant or something because that’s all I know from my memory. But when operating out of our imagination, there’s almost nothing that’s impossible that you can create and almost nothing that’s impossible that we can’t make happen. And so we started off with that mindset.

10 years out after we were free, what did we want to have? What is it that we wanted to create? What would already be created if we were making decisions today from that future? And so because living amends is very important to us and we were all going to be free, we wanted to make a difference. In California, the reentry landscape, still to this day, but it’s getting better, is very siloed.
So if a person comes out of prison, you like, like you mentioned your friend who mom, I’m also friends with after a couple of decades and you need housing, the housing providers really don’t work together too much. And if you need a career or workforce development, they don’t really work together too much either.

Jim Piper: I see.

CROP Organization’s Program Details

Richard Mireles: If you needed mental health treatment. so everything is very siloed and not working together. And what we sought to do was to create sort of a one-stop shop. The short version of our program is for your friend or anybody who’s coming out of incarceration, whether male or female, it’s a one year program. The number one recidivating factor for people is a lack of housing. So they’ll have a year of free housing with CROP.

On top of that, in the first three months, we do leadership development training on Mondays and Tuesdays. We do financial wellness training on Wednesdays. That’s with a live banker come in and teaching financial wellness for 12 weeks. And then we do digital literacy training. Most of us are coming out–

Jim Piper: Oh, that’s a big deal.

Richard Mireles: Absolutely. I mean, I left prison six years ago, almost six years ago, 17 days from today would be my sixth year out after serving 21 years. And I was still using a typewriter in there, having never used wifi before, having never used a smartphone before. When I was incarcerated, the DVD barely came out. And then when I got out, it was already pretty much ceased to exist.
So we provide digital literacy where folks will learn how to operate Google Suite, Microsoft Suite, and really become proficient and fast in the digital landscape. We’re bridging that digital divide that exists. On Fridays, we do service work. We’ve learned that it’s not about me, it’s about we. How can I give back? Selfishness took us to prison. That self-sufficient attitude of Genesis 11, what got us there, but it’s self-sufficiency that will keep us free.

Jim Piper: Oh man. That maybe wasn’t a coincidence then because what I did is I swapped our podcast time with another podcast that we were discussing Genesis 11. For those listening, Genesis 11 is a Bible reference to the first book in the Bible. After Noah’s ark landed and after some time, the people had exited that and to make a long story short, we’re constructing something to themselves. And that’s the self-sufficiency that you’re talking about.

And then of course, then God scattered them through language, and basically kick their butts going back to one of your first analogies, which was still his grace, because his original plan was that we would spread out and multiply anyway. Since we didn’t have enough faith to do that, he gave us a kick in the butt. And I mean, that’s a sports analogy to the story, but it kind of fits what we’re talking about. That’s good. Keep going. I am going to bring you back eventually to this incredible phrase, working out of your imagination instead of your memory. I got questions for you in that but keep on going. You’re on a roll.

Richard Mireles: On those Fridays, so we imagined what is really needed to meet the whole needs of the person coming out of incarceration five years, 10 years, 20 years. We had a gal come out after 30 years. What’s needed? What’s needed is the digital literacy training and financial wellness training. Most of us never wrote a book. We don’t know how to do online banking and app. So we’re in class eight hours a day with a- taking a–

We call it, it’s like drinking water from a fire hose and intense dive into digital literacy, financial literacy, leadership development, and then service work. It was that pride and selfishness that got us to prison, but it will be that humility and selflessness that keeps us free. That’s where the freedom’s at. That’s where the power is at, as you know. So that’s all in the first three months. And we also give them a thousand dollars a month stipend, checking account, savings account with beneficial state bank. By the time they graduate, they’re walking away with a $4,800 in savings. 400 of their money a month goes into savings that can’t be spent until they graduate. 600 goes in their checking. They can spend how they like. And then we provide long-term housing.

Now, after that three months is up, they’ll go into one of our career tracks. So we have B2B sales and tech and SaaS, and software as a service. They’re learning either how to become a sales development representative in the tech industry, or they can take on like a healthcare tract learning how to be an AOD counselor or reentry specialist or a peer support specialist. There’s several different tracks in that reentry healthcare field that they’ll get training for or transportation, the truck truck driver.

But the goal is in those nine months when they’re going through the intense career training is that we’re only going to provide people with an opportunity. We’re going to create an opportunity for them to walk into a livable family wage career. Now we’ve graduated 127 people, the average income of our graduates, somewhere between $60,000, $70,000 a year. Nobody has ever recidivated. We have a zero recidivism rate.

Jim Piper: That’s crazy.

Richard Mireles: Why is that? Because there’s a common denominator between a livable wage career and staying out of prison. When a person comes out and walks-

Jim Piper: Makes sense.

Richard Mireles: -has to fight like heck just to get a gig economy job and makes 15 to $20 an hour, where do they go back to? They go back to gang and drug stress neighborhoods with all the limitations.

Jim Piper: Yeah, yeah, it only takes one toothache or one flat tire to make you or to cause you do something another way. Yeah.

Richard Mireles: Well, yeah, we stand for the possibility that it is definitely a temptation. It doesn’t cause us, but you know, after that long, as you and I know, the stressors of– When I got out of prison, my coach said to me, “Welcome to real prison.” And what he meant by that is life out here is much harder than in there. You know, and now that I’m off parole and I’m a homeowner and I married and I have a wife and sons and pay bills and give back in the community, it’s a lot.

And what I didn’t realize was on those days when I’m overwhelmed that responsible adults get overwhelmed. I thought there was something wrong with me. Why am I so overwhelmed? I feel like I’m drowning. It’s tough. Life is tough. Well, that’s just the life of being a responsible adult. It’s not easy.

Jim Piper: It is. And yeah, it never ends, right? I mean, the complaining I do around my household is probably not very emotionally intelligent of me, but it does– You know, I always say I can’t seem to shut the water off, meaning that there’s always a bill. It just keeps on coming. And every time you think you got it all taken care of something something else, something else happens. But you’re right. Can I interrupt you for just a minute? Because I got some questions.

Richard Mireles: Please.

Jim Piper: So how does a person get accepted into your program? I’m sure they don’t just walk in. What is that process like? How does that work?

Richard Mireles: On our website, they can apply on our website. We also print applications and take them with us to prisons. So I’m the director of personal development and engagement. The personal development side is, I lead our team of coaches and doing transformational coaching with the, we call them fellows, the participants in our program. So that’s that side of it. But then after their first three months are up., for each cohort, they move on to what we call pillar two.

Pillar one is leadership for life. Pillar two is equipped for life. And then once they’re in pillar two, then we take three months and me and my team of coaches go into prisons. We see that as like our pipeline of talent. That’s where we’re looking for the most prepared. You know, if this is the Stanford of reentry, we want those who are going to– We look at it as we’re making an investment in people, right? If you had a cure for cancer, would you give it to the patient or would you give it to a doctor? If I had a million dollars to invest, would I give it to my cousin who owes me $50 for two years or would I give it to a financial advisor? Right?

Jim Piper: Right.

Richard Mireles: We’re looking for those that we’re going to make an investment in and those are the most ready.

Jim Piper: I would imagine also that the word would kind of spread to those that are incarcerated, maybe giving them a new goal to say, “Boy, I would really like to apply and get in someday when I get out of here.” And then they’re noticing who you are attracted to. You know, as you said, I see how your vision is lining up the Harvard, the Stanford and well, they recruit. And if they don’t recruit and get an app, boy, that app better stand out, right? As somebody that you go, okay, we should take a look at that incredible applicant. That’s very interesting.

Richard Mireles: I also run a few programs, a program called The Quest in Solano Prison. The program is also in Solidad Prison and Folsom Prison. And soon it will be in both of the women’s prisons. Quest is a goal-setting slash vision casting program. Those who graduate and we train men and women in prisons to become coaches of this curriculum. And then we go there and support them as coaches. But this robust curriculum really teaches people how to dream and imagine, right? To cast a vision for a future worth having and accomplish it on a micro level in there as a way to see that it’s possible to achieve it on a macro level out here.

And those who are, who are Quest graduates kind of– They’ll be more primed for the program out here. And the program out here in Oakland and LA is called Ready for Life. So yeah, we have 1200 applicants right now and we can only take 60 every six months.

Jim Piper: So it’s tough to get in. Yeah.

Richard Mireles: So it is tough to get in and we’re working with the state of California right now and the governor to expand to scale. This was our first pilot.

Jim Piper: Without lowering the bar for what you’re trying to accomplish.

Richard Mireles: Yeah, we’re not lowering the bar.

Jim Piper: That’s really, that is, that is very, very interesting to me. You know, psychologists tell us that the vast majority of our behaviors are subconscious because they’ve been learned over time. And when you start it to describe your vision, I did not realize when– Oh, you know what, Richard, I also realized now how we got connected. Yes, it was to our mutual friend, but it was on social media. I saw that you had made a comment. Someone made a comment regarding a good news comment regarding our mutual friend. And that popped up on my feed. And so as I was getting ready to engage, your name popped up, but there was enough description. underneath your name where it caused me to click on it and go “Oh,” and you know, there was a correlation there which got me curious.

You know, so that’s cool. I just remember that. But anyway, let’s go back to the beginning. In the beginning, you were talking about as you’re walking the track, you did a really good job. I can tell you have developed as a public speaker because I know my mentors have taught me is that when you’re speaking, you want to take people where you’re at in your mind and you know, let them catch. So as you said, you’re walking the track, I was right there with you. You know, I said, okay.

And then you said, “We started using our imagination instead of our memory.” When did you consciously realize that that was happening? That’s that because usually it’s, “Okay, I got to stop thinking this way, I got to stop thinking this way.” I mean, How did you consciously become aware that this is not only what you’re doing, but this is what you need to do in order to create a path forward?

Richard Mireles: Well, it’s interesting how you framed it and said, “When did you first realize that this was happening?| I think that it’s happening in all of our lives. Like this morning, I cast a vision to go and brush my teeth. Right? We determined I’m going to brush my teeth and then we went and did it. I took action. Right? So, the way we think about it is like, it’s happening. But what if I got intentional and designed as if my life in the future is a blank canvas. So in 2012, I was already incarcerated. I went in in 1998, in August of 1998, and I didn’t come out until March 19th of 2019.

I was already in, and a believer of the president of Toastmasters International, working on my bachelor’s degree, became a state certified alcohol and drug counselor, but there was these master coaches. And they’re by the names of Daniel Takini and his wife Eileen Takini, and then a mentor and coach named Jesse Bonderman. And they were free and they came in with this audacious perspective that they were going to work with the people that are most willing to be of service, the people that are most ready to apply new leadership principles to their life. So we had to go–

Jim Piper: I used to call that FAT, F-A-T, faithful, available, teachable.

Richard Mireles: That’s right. So they interviewed us and I was one of the ones chosen. Now, you mentioned in psychology a lot of those things are in our subconscious. Well, from this philosophical construct, it was what if we could bring to the surface, imagine what’s under the water line in our– The subconscious, it’s like out of our awareness. What if it became possible for me to lower the water line? There’s an iceberg and I can only see 10% of the iceberg. And under the iceberg is that subconscious, those beliefs, those thinking patterns, and all those things that I’m unaware of. How can I make myself more aware and lower the water line, bringing more into the awareness?

And the solution is to look at the results that I’m getting in life. And these people came in and taught us how to intensely look at the results of our beliefs, strongholds, thinking patterns, paradigms, worldviews, the way we say things, the language we use, like that’s just how I am. I can’t change because that’s just how I am. And on top of that, the most powerful thing they ever did for us is to ask us to write a 10 year vision. And they said, I want you to write that vision as if you’re in that vision. You’re there. You have achieved it. You’re 10 years into the future. And tell us how you got there. What were the challenges? What were the strategies?

Jim Piper: Okay. So you’re having to even imagine the challenges and the obstacles along with– Not not just a beautiful destination, but the climb along the way.

Richard Mireles: Yes. That’s right. And Jim, I want to share with you that most people in prison, if you ask them this question, what do you want to do when you get out? I’ve asked this to hundreds of people now. I’ve gone back into prisons over 70 times. They say, “Bro, I just want to get out.” “Yeah, but where do you want to live? What career do you want? What type of home do you want? Do you want to do any community work? What city do you want to live in?” “Man, I’m just trying to get out.”

There’s a blocker that we have placed and part of it is in prison, we’re trying to survive. I want to survive. Let me get out. Then I’ll worry about that out there. But we do ourselves a disservice by doing that. And so they taught us to begin to imagine and not in a like, “I’m going to get out and become a police officer.” Felons don’t become police officers, right? Or 45 or 41 year olds don’t become astronauts. So within the realm of possibility, right?

I could still become a podcaster, a digital marketer or a social media marketer, I could still become a director, a communications manager. And I could still become a policy expert. Today I’ve done 125 policy visits to state capital. All those things that I just mentioned I’ve done. But when I originally wrote my 10 year vision, and this happens 99 % of the time, when people write it and we help them get very specific. There’s power and specificity. Here’s what happens. They end up achieving when they buy into their vision that they created, they end up achieving it in like 18 months, two years, one year. We sell ourselves short.

We cast the vision at CROP. “Oh, do our best to raise a million in three years.” We raised up 41 million in five years or some number close to that. When you’re hyper intentional about loving people, giving back, making a difference, caring about how you live, how you love and making a difference that’s greater than ourself and then you really apply these principles, what you find out is you. go above and beyond what you even imagined. And so you got to now imagine even bigger.

And so that’s really when I first started and even now being married and a homeowner, I didn’t imagine that for myself within the first three years of freedom. I didn’t allow myself to get specific there. But now I would.

The Beginnings of CROP

Jim Piper: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Richard, you were, or I should say before you started CROP, or maybe while you were starting CROP, how did you make ends meet? What were you doing, practically speaking, to keep yourself upright and fed and clothed and housed?

Richard Mireles: Out here in freedom?

Jim Piper: Yes. Yeah.

Richard Mireles: Well, my closest friend, Ted Gray, he’s one of the co-founders. They call me and Jason, Jason Bryant, Ted Gray, and Matthew Braden, and Ken Oliver, the five co-founders of CROP. But there’s a story under that story.

Jim Piper: There’s all there always is. Yep.

Richard Mireles: And the real two co-founders are Ted and his dad, Mitch Gray. The real way that CROP began was because of a father’s love for his son.

Jim Piper: Oh, man.

Richard Mireles: Mitch Gray. Ted was sentenced to 40 years to life at the age of 22.

Jim Piper: Oh, my word.

Richard Mireles: And his father in the visiting rooms in prison, it’s 98% women that are in the visits, the moms, the sisters, the grandmas. But Mitch would come visit Ted. Mitch, he used to visit Ted in the level fours. And those are the dangerous prisons. And he would challenge the belief system of the anti-social prison politics with Ted. In prison, you hear this a lot. “That’s just how it is. You know, I got to go with the flow because I want to survive. I had to, I have to.”

You don’t have to. There may be grave consequences, but you don’t have to. And his father continued to love him and his father challenged him and said, what could we do to change the dynamic of this racism in prisons and the divide? You know, the whites over here, the blacks over here, what could we do to change things?
And the number one way you can change that in prison is through sports and music. So Ed’s dad and Ted created a nonprofit CROP Organization. It started off in 2008 with Mitch buying– He’s successful entrepreneur. And he bought sports and music equipment for people in the level four prisons and promoted unity and peace. And then eventually we all came together and met each other.

But Ted’s co-defendant was Jason Bryant and Jason was Black and Ted was White. And they’re supposed to hate each other in prison, even though they were brothers and best friends and roommates and like family in freedom. And so we’ve spent more time on this call talking than they spent in six years on a level four talking, because that’s how it is. Because that’s just how it is in prison, right? And so we learn to break up and bust up the antisocial prison dynamic and create an island of transformation where people could come. And it’s really like the biblical model. God calls us citizens of heaven. He speaks about us from a future based perspective, but we battle against seeing ourselves from his perspective

Jim Piper: Yes, we do.

Richard Mireles: Yeah, he says we’re pilgrims and sojourners on this earth. What if I live like a real pilgrim and sojourner? How much more, how much greater of an impact can I have in this world?

Richard’s Personal Journey and Faith

Jim Piper: Richard, how long have you been a person of faith?

Richard Mireles: Since December 1st, 1997. Before that I was–

Jim Piper: What role has that played in your life since?

Richard Mireles: I’m alive today because Jesus saved me. You would think that I’m embarrassed and ashamed to say that I backslid. I ran away from God. I had truly received him as my Lord and Savior in freedom, but I ran away like Jonah. And I gave myself over to the lifestyle like the prodigal son again. It wasn’t six months before I got 25 years to life. And then I was ashamed even more and tried to hide from God. If you have a relationship with God, the Holy Spirit dwells inside of you. And before when I would sin, it didn’t bother me. Then now, when I sin, the Holy Spirit would convict me.

So I’m in a level four in 1999 and my cellmate asked me if I want to do heroin, if I want to get high with him. And I had never used needles before prison. This time, it came with needles and he had cocaine, methamphetamines and heroin. And because I was 21 years old, I was running from God in rebellion. Now I had 25 to life. It was an escape and it was a way for me to get along. If I do this with them, then they’ll think I’m down and it’ll keep me alive longer.

So I started using with my cellmate and nine months later we nearly OD’d in the cell. We did OD. We were on the verge of death one night and my cellmate was on the bottom bunk asking me to not let him die. And he’s turning pale. He was a big guy. I managed to crawl up to the top bunk. I’m thinking, “How am I gonna not let him die when I’m dying?” And I’m 21 years old and my life is flashing before my eyes. It’s 1999. I’m not gonna get a chance to go before the parole board until 2019. I’ve failed my mom, my grandparents who are amazing people, my stepdad, my sister. I’m the only one in my family to gone to prison and here I am with 25 years to life and now I’m going to die in prison as a drug addict.

Gray Davis, the governor at the time said the only way of life forever leave prison is a pine box. And here I am, I’m going to be the pine box guy. In that moment, I said, “God, I don’t want to die. Don’t let me die in here. I’m sorry.” And I repented again. I had before, six months before, received him into my heart, but I became disobedient. And now I’m asking him to give me a chance, to not let me die so that I could serve him. I didn’t know how that would look and I was terrified in there, but God let me wake up the next morning. I didn’t think I would.

And the next day I told my cellmate that I’m done. I’m not ever using drugs again or drinking. And he’s like, “Yeah, right.” June 10th will be 25 years since the last time I used drugs or alcohol. And what I didn’t know was that cellmate was a backslider himself. I didn’t find that out until 18 years later when he had given his life to God. And now he’s in freedom too after serving 33 years there. But that was the first time I gave my life fully over to God in there, come what may. There’s a lot of other stories, but that’s the gist of when I came back.

Jim Piper: That was a beautiful story and it’s very difficult to argue with that story. I mean that that is your experience and I thought of so many people that I know as you were as you were talking about that. When it all comes down to it, we all have a lot in common, but we don’t we don’t realize it sometimes in that way. Richard well speaking of vision. It sounds like this is something that has really been a gift that God has given you, not only for yourself, but now to share with others. You’ve touched on it a little bit in the sense of what you’re hoping to do more and greater through your organization. But how would you articulate your vision moving forward from here?

I mean, you have attained incredible success that you have– I mean, one of the questions came through my mind, which I’m not asking you yet, unless you want to answer this along with the vision question is, how in the world did you get– How did someone who’s incarcerated come out and was able to cast this vision and really influence others to get on board? I mean, I guess that is a curiosity that I have. It’s a leadership question, but where are you taking this organization from here? What’s your vision for it?

Richard’s Vision for CROP’s Future

Richard Mireles: Just to backtrack, when I first came home and was in transitional housing myself, Mitch Gray started me off on a- he started paying me one month out of incarceration. But today, we’re about to begin our fourth and fourth cohort in Oakland, our fifth cohort in LA. We are seeking to be funded again by the state of California and to provide that housing component in Los Angeles and then to scale and start.

Eventually, our vision is to be in every major reentry hub in California, the San Diego’s, the Riversides, the Monterey’s, the Fresno’s, and to be able to serve those needs of people. We believe that we have found the secret. I mean, it’s not a perfect system, but Like I said, there’s zero recidivism. And so that’s the goal to be able to serve, serve people, in all those major cities and then beyond that in to open up in other states.

Jim Piper: Redescribe that secret. You talked about it earlier, but describe that again. What’s making this work?

Richard Mireles: Well, the most important thing in our program is what we call leadership for life. And it’s the mindset work that we do. From a biblical perspective, think of the book of Ephesians. And when God tells us you’re accepted, you’re loved, he says so many things about who we are. It’s our job to accept who he says that we are from his perspective. And so from a secular perspective, we’re doing the same thing. Like, who are you committed to being in your future?

And when people adopt that mindset, whether they’re believers or not, like I’m committed to being in my future, an amazing father, husband, community man, a person that works hard, has that grit, grind, work ethic, honesty, integrity in my career. When that becomes their mindset as a way of being. Not only as a belief like, “Yeah, that sounds good. I can do that once in a while.” No, when they adopted as a new way of being, eventually it becomes a natural expression of who they are in this world.

And so that’s why today I tell somebody, “I used to use drugs.” and be like, “Come on, you didn’t use drugs before.” They don’t believe me sometimes. And that’s because that’s no longer who– I am no longer being who I once was today. I’m being somebody completely new. That’s transformation. The secret sauce is for them to see themselves as they could be to adopt a transformational mindset about who they can be and what they can do. You can be making a six figure salary in tech or whatever career. You can be an amazing husband, you can be an amazing wife, brother, sister, you can be a community member, you can operate with humility, with love. And you could never raise your tone again.

You could do like I did and commit to be nonviolent for the rest of your life. And it’s going on 30 years, never violent again, not even stolen a paperclip. And so we invite people into that perspective. When they own it for themselves, it’s like a hardcore stance on personal responsibility. When they own that and say, “Yeah, I like that, I want that for me,” and they begin to take action, it doesn’t all happen overnight, but over time, when they’re committed, they become a whole new person. Does that make sense?

Richard’s Role at CROP and Alumni Support

Jim Piper: So you’re the co-founder of CROP. What is your practical role today in the day-to-day operations of the organization?

Richard Mireles: My practical role is to work with the, I train our coaches in our methodology. For everybody that goes through our program, they start out with a three-day leadership development seminar, three eight hour days. So before even starting, they’ll start off with a 24 hour seminar. And so I work with–

Jim Piper: And that’s where you probably talk about mindset. My guess is that you’re probably talking about mindset even before they’re accepted, but when they’re accepted and in the program, that’s probably when you’re really driving it in. I mean, that’s just what my imagination is saying it might look like.

Richard Mireles: That’s right. We are through the Quest programs in prisons, we’re working on that mindset development there and inviting people to do their own mindset work in those other programs that exist in the prison or church so that they’re primed for the outside program. They’re primed for ready for life on the outside. Beyond that, I also make sure that the digital literacy instruction is going well, the financial wellness working with Beneficial State Bank, that the financial wellness instruction is going well.

We give them a MacBook Pro and making sure the coaches are working with them to learn their Macs, to do their homework. There’s probably two homework assignments every day. We’re in class eight hours a day. That the coaches are supported in Los Angeles and Oakland. And then also I lead our efforts. We use Salesforce to receive applications, upload applications, review applications, see who we’re going to accept based on different scoring rubrics that we use as well as oversee, make sure the interviews are going well. And then oversee the process of us going back into prisons to share our stories of hope and to invite them to come out here to be a part of this.

Also, we have an alumni support network. It has some room to be built out. I’m learning from some other organizations that have alumni support networks. What could I do to help the– We have 127 graduates, to stay in touch with them. What are they doing today? No one’s gone back. They’re all doing great as family people. So bringing them together in some different way to continue to be resource.

We just had a get-together in Los Angeles and Whittier. The cool thing was we had people from all four of the first cohorts there. And then there was people fresh out of prison going there to see what the program was going to be about. To see people that we’re just like them who got out one year, two years ago, three years ago, who are now they’re walking a different talk, living a different talk, working at tech companies, working in reentry, having a chief technology officer titles and directors of programs and leaders. They’re just blown away. They’re like, Wow could that be me?”

So to keep that inspiration and hope going. So that’s really what I do at CROP. I also host our podcast called the Prison Post podcast. And I had recorded and released on Spotify, Apple, iTunes, and all the different places, 87 episodes. I took a break for a couple of years and now I’m firing it back up. And we’ll have some really interesting guests, especially the fellows, to have them share their stories.

Jim Piper: Wonderful. That is just beautiful. I guess the way I want to answer this question is there must be a lot of satisfaction that you are experiencing today. What is driving you to continue this? It can’t be easy work.

Richard Mireles: No, it’s not easy work, but what drives me is yesterday was the one-year anniversary of my grandfather’s passing. And he’s a Vietnam vet for tours, combat tours. He was a man who did things right. And I didn’t. And I always wanted to make him proud and my grandmother, my mom proud. I know I didn’t do that for a lot of part of my life, but today I know that he’s proud. And I was able to lead as a celebration of life services for him and his funeral over 500 people came.

So being a rock for my family, wanting to care for my parents when they’re older. You know, they say now like they’re in their mid-60s. So they’re like, “You just need to worry about you. You’re thinking too far ahead.” But I do think about that. It does matter to me. And they cared for me for all of my life and my life there. They were the only ones that were there when I was at my worst. And they love me at my worst. So today it gives me peace to love God and to love people and to do something meaningful that will impact my family and people that are coming out of prison so that they don’t have to go back. We can stop the revolving door and it’s out of a lot of people’s awareness how to do that.

Advice on Dealing with the Past

Jim Piper: Whether people have been incarcerated or not, we all have things and behaviors in our past that we experience guilt and to some degree shame. And it sounds like you are a man who’s worked through a lot of that not just in your mind, but in your spirit, it just comes off that way. What advice would you give all of us and how we deal with our past, the parts that you know, we don’t like?

Richard Mireles: Well, I would say that it’s very important to heal and part of healing is to be honest. I mentioned personal responsibility. If you could go back and look at your part, let’s say me and you were in an argument, Jim and you were 95 % responsible and I was 5%. Most people in this world, they play the victim. They look at their lives as if they’re looking out the window and everything and everyone, it’s all everyone else’s fault. The invitation is to look in the mirror. Richard, are you willing to own 100% of your 5%?

Jim Piper: Oh, wow.

Richard Mireles: When people are willing to own 100% of their 5% or their 1%, they become more powerful. And you could go for no matter what, the most difficult decisions were what we chose in life. People that didn’t go to prison, they made poor choices too. Nobody wants the worst decision that they ever made in life to be posted on Facebook every day for the rest of their life. And so that’s what prison feels like every day is a reminder of the worst decision you ever made.

Jim Piper: Oh, man.

Jim Piper: Prison is not who I am, it’s my location. What I did got me there. It’s not who I am. So I tell people, remember the past doesn’t define you. The past is past. What defines you is what your commitments are. What are you committed to? Uh, what type of father are you committed to being? What type of mother, wife, brother, sister, husband, coworker, colleague, community member? What defines you is how you live and how you love.

And people will know, like Jesus said, “They’ll know a tree by its fruit.” But to live the opposite of that is to live an inauthentic life. And it feels fraudulent. If you want to stop doing that, you can make the choice to be authentic and own your part for what happened in life, what choices you made, what you said, what you didn’t say, what you did, what you didn’t do.

And it’s okay. It’s not a good or bad conversation. It’s just a results conversation. These are the results. I own it. I’m a human being, but here’s what I want in the future. Here’s what I’m committed to and begin living that. Just like you did with this podcast, right? It’s like, “That’s something that I want to do. Here’s the action steps I’m going to do. I’m going to do it.” Now people know you as, at least part of who you are, as a podcaster. Right. And there’s all kinds of ways you can make that better. It’s the same thing any aspect of life.

Dealing with Those Who Have Harmed Us

Jim Piper: And similar question, but in my last question, I really enjoyed this time with you. What about those who’ve done things against us? How do we work through that?

Richard Mireles: Yeah. It’s interesting that you asked that question because while I’ve been on this show with you, Genesis 50:20 came to my mind at least once.

Jim Piper: Joseph.

Richard Mireles: Yeah. And his brothers, they harmed him. They sold him into slavery. He was the beloved of his father and they sold him into slavery. He went to prison. You know, most people know the story, but later on, he told them, “What you intended for evil against me, God intended for good.” It comes back to the Tower of Babel thing, like these people wanted to do their will and God broke that down and tore it down.

But when other people have tore us down, I think to see that God is sovereign even in that. What is the lesson and the blessing here? These people harm me. How can I choose to relate to it in a way that’s powerful? How can I choose to use it? I think of the lady in the Boston bombings. She was a real victim. She lost her leg running a marathon. But what does she do? She got that prosthetic. She went back and finished the marathon. I’ve never even ran a whole marathon before. She went back and finished the race.

Jim Piper: I’m with you there.

Richard Mireles: She married the firefighter. She created a nonprofit to help people that have been harmed by tragedies like that. So I think the secret is not allowing the harm that other people caused us, not using that as a way to justify our mediocrity or poor decisions in life. Don’t let it use you. You use it to bring beauty in the world to what other people have done to you. Jesus on the cross said, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.”

And I know it’s difficult. People did horrible things to me growing up. I have my own pain. But you know what? What’s a better perspective to have? Father forgive them for they know not what they do. I take my power back there. I’m not living in the past when I’m taking my power back. And I think that’s the invitation for others to just forgive and move forward. It’s not an excuse for the harms other people caused us, but it’s certainly a much more empowering way to live life.

Jim Piper: Richard, you have blessed my life today. And I know that you’re going to bless the lives of so many who listen to this and as it goes out into cyberspace and all the opportunities there. I know this might sound too soon and maybe a little too weird for some but you have gained a friend today and you will hear from me again. Thank you so much for giving up your time to talk about your story and your vision and the work that you’re doing. It has humbled me and encouraged me today.

Richard Mireles: Thank you so much, Jim. Appreciate you.

Outro

Winston Harris: Thank you for joining us here at The Today Count Show. Be sure to like and subscribe on whatever platform you listen to or watch, so you don’t miss any content. Stay tuned for more coming soon.
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