Episode 182: Leadership Isn’t Instant: The Long Game to the Top

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Today Counts Show Episode 182

Preview

Zach: I think COVID was really a huge disservice for the younger generations. I think this whole kind of working from home, you can kind of disappear. I think one of the things that I had early on was getting visibility—being visible to management—and being able to present to management, being able to work on something for someone that got you recognized.

Jim: Being available is half the battle.

Zach: It’s not that we want to penalize them, to have to come to an office, but really that’s being visible. The value of being seen.

Appreciation of our Supporters

Winston: Hey, before we jump into the podcast, we want to thank all our donors and supporters who make the Today Count Show possible. It’s through your generosity that we’re able to shape leaders through this content and this podcast. Be sure to like, subscribe, and follow wherever you find yourself coming across this content. All right, let’s get to the podcast.

Welcome and Introduction

Jim: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Today Count Show. I’m excited that you are listening again, and be sure to share. If you love the content, if you love this podcast, be sure to tell others about it. I’ve got a very special guest: a friend, a colleague, a client. There are all kinds of labels that we could probably give one another. We’ll talk about that in a little bit, and I’ll introduce him in just a minute.

Wisdom from Proverbs

But before I do, if you’ve been on the podcast, if you’ve listened enough, you know that I have referred to a habit that I’ve had in my life probably since I was a teenager, one that I have to give credit to my parents for. If you’re business-minded, if you’re wisdom-minded, there is a book in the Bible called Proverbs. It’s got 31 chapters in it, and I read a chapter a day. The chapter I read corresponds with the day of the month. Now, I’d be lying to say I do it every day, but I do it more often than I don’t.

So, today is the 11th. We are recording on the 11th of the month. There were a few verses that I wanted to read that I thought really fit the discussion that you’re going to listen to today.

In Proverbs 11:14, it says, “Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors, there is safety.” I want to read that again. Where there is no guidance, no vision, no direction, people fall, people fail. But in an abundance of counselors, there is safety. That speaks to me a ton about leadership, a ton about wisdom, and a ton about vision. So I thought that was worth reading.

Just a few verses later in verse 17, the first part of verse 17 says, “A man who is kind benefits himself.” I thought that was a pretty significant nugget that stuck out for me today.

And this next one is very similar. It’s verse 24. It says, “One gives freely yet grows all the richer. Another withholds what he should give and only suffers want.” I thought that was a great way to set up this podcast today.

Introducing Zach Maguire and MasTech

Today I have with me Zack Maguire. Zach Maguire is the president of an organization within an organization that we call Power Delivery within the company MasTech. He is a leader that I respect, and I’m so excited about getting involved with some things with you, Zach. So, welcome to the show.

Zach: Jim, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Jim: Thanks for flying to San Antonio to come to us.

Zach: It’s nice and cool today. You’re in San Antonio.

Jim: It’s never cool in San Antonio. I guess it is sometimes—maybe 20 or 30 times a year, something like that. But I’m so excited that you would fly down and come in studio. In studio is so much better. We’re right here together.

So I’m hoping today that we get to talk about leadership, a lot of things that you have learned, and I’ve even written down a bunch of questions for you. But the obvious one: let’s start with MasTech as a company. Tell us a little bit about MasTech. What does it do? What is it? Where is it? All that.

The Transformation of MasTech

Zach: First and foremost, thank you very much. We’ve known each other now for, I think, 15 plus years.

Jim: I think so.

Zach: I appreciate everything you’ve done for me personally and for the organization. I just wanted to start with that.

Jim: That’s kind of you.

Zach: So, MasTech. I’ve been with MasTech 18 years, as of July 21st. To see what the company has transformed into is pretty amazing.

Jim: For sure.

Zach: I’ll take you back to 2007. MasTech was basically a telecom company, providing services to the telecommunications industry via installation services—traditional phone and fiber, and we’re really–

Jim: Television, cable television.

Zach: Yeah. We’re the largest DirecTV installer in the United States, still today actually. If you go back to 2007, we were just short of a billion dollars in revenue. Today we’re at 13 billion. Really if you go back to our roots in the telecom business, we really used that to diversify our company into what we are today, which has really transformed completely from one industry to another in infrastructure business. We provide infrastructure to many different markets.

MasTech as an Infrastructure Leader

Jim: I think I learned that term from you about four or five years ago that if there was one term to describe MasTech, it would be infrastructure.

Zach: Infrastructure. Providing infrastructure from everything from oil and gas to telecommunications to cell phone towers to wind, solar, electricity, and water, sewer. We also even build stadiums. So, we’re really many different facets of what the company has grown into over the past.

Jim: And there’s one unique stadium that’s being built right now.

Zach: Down in Miami. Yeah. For Inter Miami. Our bosses own Inter Miami and founded that just actually 2020, right? Their first game was actually cancelled because of COVID in March of 2020.

Messi, Miami, and International Growth

Jim: Yeah. And of course, that team has gotten a lot of recognition lately due to the recruiting of Messi.

Zach: Messi. Yeah. Probably one of the best players of all time.

Jim: Oh yeah. Right.

Zach: Coming into the United States playing for an MLS team has really driven a lot of new attraction to the sport in the United States, which is not as big here as it is in Europe.

Jim: No, but man, what a fit for Miami.

Zach: Yeah. A perfect fit for Miami.

Jim: Yeah. I just love being in that Coral Gables, Miami area because it’s just that international flavor that you get. You hear all different kinds of languages and that’s where the headquarters is, right? In that area.

Zach: Yeah. Headquarters in Coral Gables.

Jim: But what about power delivery itself?

Power Delivery: A New Segment for MasTech

Zach: Yeah. So I head up power delivery. I’ve been actually doing that for about the past four and a half years which was a completely new segment for me and a completely new experience.

Jim: It’s a new segment for MasTech too. Right?

Zach: Well, we’ve actually been providing electricity just on a smaller basis. We did a little gas as well. Probably for the past 20 years or so. But really, if you go back to May of ’21 is kind of where we formed the segment, if you will, from an operational perspective. We’ve always had it from a public reporting perspective. But we really went on kind of an acquisition tear for a while.

In May of ’21, we were about a half a billion or so in revenue and we woke up January of ’22 and were three billion in revenue. And this year we’ll do just about four billion in revenue in the power delivery segment, which is everything from transmission to building substations to distribution, working for electric companies across the United States and also building what I like to call the big transmission lines in the middle of nowhere.

The Growing Demand for Power Infrastructure

And I think everybody’s talked about what’s driving the power delivery business. It’s really the need for electricity. There’s a couple things. One, the infrastructure in the United States is very old. The power lines just outside of this that power your house here are probably 1950 technology. So the need for electricity around the data centers and the need for electricity in general is just unbelievable.

Jim: Just what Elon Musk himself needs.

Zach: It’s really driving our business. It’s just taking off the need for qualified people to be able to work on those lines. From a safety perspective, we spend a lot of time making sure our people are safe. That’s one of the things that keeps me up at night as a leader—making sure our people go home safe to their families.

Understanding the Complexity of Power Delivery

Jim: All kinds of moving pictures went through my mind as you were describing Power Delivery, Zach. Because I’ve been learning kind of jogging next to you in this business. I’ve been learning and I’ve picked up a lot from hallway conversations with your leaders and different things. For example, I knew literally nothing about what you’ve been talking about until X amount of few years ago.

Some of the stuff I picked up is like in lots of places in Louisiana, you’re not going to  bury your cable lines because of all the swamps, so now you’re building them above the water. That’s a different level of complication and technique that you do. In other places, you bury this. Just driving up the highway to my house, I can see both transmission lines, distribution lines, and substations. All of these different terms.

For the layperson, who’s going, “What are these guys talking about?” But it’s literally those what sometimes looks like as in some cases looks as small as telephone poles with power lines on them. And then you see those big mini Eiffel Tower type things that have the transmission lines on them. And then those little areas that have all those funny-looking gizmos that are storing and moving and transmitting electricity. So that is a lot of stuff.

Let’s talk about your resume for a little bit. How did you even get involved in this?

Zach’s Journey into Power Delivery

Zach: Yeah. That’s a great question. It’s kind of funny. I like to tell the story of May ’21, just four and a half years ago. I didn’t know anything about electricity. AC/DC was a band as far as I was concerned. And my boss, Bob Apple, called me in and said, “Hey, we need you to run our power delivery segment.” I got to tell you out of the gate, it was really scary.

A couple things for me going into something that I didn’t know much about. I really thought that one, having to learn that piece, not being an engineer by trade, coming from the telecom business, would be a big obstacle. The other thing is about 80% of our workforce is union.

Jim: 80%?

Zach: 80% and I had actually been a non-union guy forever. Telecom is mainly non-union, and so I always kind of worked in a non-union environment. If we were unionized in where I worked, we would lose our territory. So those couple things really scared me. What’s interesting today, and I fast forward now, I actually haven’t had one union issue cross my desk actually.

Jim: Wow. In how many years?

Zach: In four and a half years. The union really works well in this industry in the power delivery space. The IBW primarily has been the electric workers for years and years, and it has really harmonized. They work well together and are an important piece of our business.

Leadership Lessons: Work Can Be Learned, People Matter Most

And then really learning the business—we’re going to talk about this today. It really boils down to the people piece. At the end of the day, this is a people business. A P&L is a P&L.

Jim: Profit and loss for those who–

Zach: If you had asked me that four and a half years ago, I would have said my biggest obstacle is going to be not understanding the work. Well, you can learn the work. You can go out and spend time in the field with the employees and with the guys and learn how the transmission lines are built and how the distribution works. What you can’t learn is how the people piece of this really comes together.

MasTech’s Workforce and Industry Challenges

Jim: Let’s talk about the people for a minute. How many employees?

Zach: Just short of 13,000.

Jim: So around 13,000 in power delivery. What kind of employees? What are they doing? Just give a little broad overview. For example, I know enough to know that we have linemen, and the linemen literally work on the power lines as an example, but what are some other types of employees that would work under your umbrella?

Zach: Yeah. So, linemen, obviously that’s who we support in the field. But we have all different aspects of not only the folks that work on the lines but the people that support the linemen. Right. So, you have some groundmen. You have people that observe what’s going on, especially from a safety perspective. When they’re up on the line, there’s someone at the truck, there’s someone running the equipment.

Jim: So, there are heavy equipment operators.

Zach: Yeah, heavy equipment. And then also there’s people making sure that everything’s safe. The power lines are sometimes on a street, so making sure everything’s coned off properly, so it creates a safe environment not only up on the line but around the workspace as well.

Jim: Right.

Supporting Functions and Infrastructure Upgrades

Zach: And then you’ve got everything from project controls to project management to fleet to our safety professionals.

Jim: Fleet meaning anything with wheels on it.

Zach: Yep. It could be anything. Fleet would mainly be things with wheels, but also just all of our tooling, all the tools that go in the different vehicles.

Jim: And the architect for this kind of work would be engineers.

Zach: Engineers.

Jim: Engineers. Interesting. And then, of course, there’s all the back-office stuff. You’ve got to have attorneys, you have bookkeeping. You already mentioned project management, and anything related to that. And then you’ve got your layers of management and leadership.

Zach: Yeah. And procurement actually is a really big piece of our business as well. A lot of our customers will provide the materials we need, but a lot of the jobs we do on a larger scale require procurement. Sometimes there are lead times with some of the steel and some of the wire we use. That’s actually a critical piece because it’s almost that just-in-time aspect. Otherwise, you have a lot of expensive materials that you really can’t have sit around. So, we need to make sure that they come in just in time.

Jim: Yeah. Now, you mentioned something earlier—then we’ll jump back into the people part—that our infrastructure is old. Where that sent my mind is, first of all, the country continues to expand. Whether we should be or not, I don’t know in regards to natural resources. But I would imagine what you’re talking about when you mention that it’s old is that it’s not all new construction. There’s maybe a lot of it that’s replacing old.

Storm Hardening and Vegetation Management

Zach: Yep. Yeah. So, there’s some replacement. But there’s also what we call storm hardening. For instance, let’s take Florida as example with the hurricanes that go through, wipe the lines out, and rebuild them. Florida Power and Light, as an example, is undergrounding the wires so they’re protected from the storms. It’s a very big investment happening right now from a storm-hardening perspective.

So, it’s not just the upgrading of the old stuff, but also making sure that they can protect it from different weather environments. Also, out west with the wildfires. They’re undergrounding a lot of the wires that have caused some of these big wildfires, and that’s happening across the United States.

Jim: Right. And now you triggered some more memory. You also have companies within the company if you will that work on trimming trees around power lines.

Zach: Yep.

Jim: Both in a precautionary way but also—

Zach: All right, we call that vegetation management.

Jim: Vegetation management.

Zach: Because sometimes you have a tree that grows over a line, and that can actually start a fire. So, we have vegetation management companies that maintain around the lines proactively.

Responding to Storms and Power Outages

Jim: Hurricanes don’t normally touch the hill country of Texas, although one has. One reached this house and actually knocked down branches, destroyed some fencing, and knocked over a palm tree. But certainly, Houston gets hit a lot. Let’s take that case. Houston gets hit with a hurricane, power goes down. Is MasTech out there in those situations?

Zach: Yeah. So, we have a whole business around Storm. Storm is where all the utilities work together and release crews locally to help in storm situations. The big hurricane that came through Florida and the Carolinas last year was devastating. We had, I think, 1,600 people working that storm.

A couple things: one, cleanup; and two, most important, restore power.

Jim: Well, where do you get these people if they’re already on jobs and then you’ve got a storm? Do they come off of jobs?

Zach: Yeah. It’s kind of mutual assistance, as they call it. Our crews will be released from, let’s say, we’re working for KMED in Chicago. They’ll release us to go help in Houston as an example, on storm, specifically to restore power mainly.

Zach’s Early Career and Management Training

Jim: Now, I kind of cut you off earlier. You were starting to talk about your résumé and how you got into this, and then I hijacked you for a little bit. You first entered MasTech as what, doing what?

Zach: Yeah. Actually, I’ll take you back. I used to install cable TV in college during the summer, and I got an internship with a company called Telecommunications, TCI. That’s where I cut my teeth in the cable TV business.

Jim: So, you literally were installing cable.

Zach: In the summertime. In the summer as an intern.

Jim: I can’t see you doing that.

Zach: No. I wasn’t very good at it, by the way. But I learned a lot with that opportunity I had. I used to caddy for the chief operating officer at TCI, and he basically said, “Look, I think you’d be good in our intern manager training program.” He called me up.

Jim: You went through a management training program?

Zach: I did. Yeah. It was very informal, but I started as a manager trainee right when I got out of college. I worked in the summers for a couple years while I was in college. It was geared to going and managing a cable system in a smaller area. But being in my early 20s, moving to a small town—actually some of them were in Texas—it was geared toward– I went to call center management, went to network operations. We launched the first high-speed cable modems.

Jim: So, they had you dive into each of those areas a little bit to gain some knowledge.

Zach: Yep. From everything from marketing to legal to operations.

The Decline of Management Training Programs

Jim: A little off topic, but why do you think we see less and less management training programs today? One of the highlights of my life was a one-year very formal management program at Bank of America when I was just a kid, but we’re seeing less and less of that. Why do you think that?

Zach: I think there’s this “go, go, go”, there’s not enough time in the day.

Jim: Yes, quadrant one.

Zach: But I actually think that’s something we really need to get back to. I’ve tried to keep it alive. Kind of in a giving-back perspective, kids that caddy for me—if I really have built a good relationship, I’ll offer them jobs. I’ve had probably five or six people take me up on it, and actually two of them I keep in touch with today. They’ve gone in different directions but were with our company for just short of 10 years, which was really neat to see.

It’s kind of where I started. It was foundational for me. You’re right, it’s something we don’t do enough of, and it’s unfortunate, especially for the younger generations.

Lessons Beyond Business in Early Training

Jim: Yeah. Set aside the details of banking. Along with those things, the things they taught me—as silly as it sounds—I came from a wonderful home, but it was middle class at best. We learned about the finer things in life. We learned about how to dress. I’m a short guy, and they said don’t ever wear horizontal striped shirts. Silly things like that.

And I don’t even know if this is still true in fashion, but they taught me that the bottom cut of the tie should be the same length as the collar of your shirt. Those kinds of things. Of course, when you sit down at a fancy restaurant or event and you’ve got forks and knives everywhere, how to navigate that situation.

But also more in-depth things like time management, how to have hard conversations, being aware of your own emotions, how to process through those kinds of things. And then, of course, we learned the trade. We learned how to analyze tax returns and spreadsheets.

In our day, we didn’t have the technology we have now. When I say spreadsheets, these were manual journal spreadsheets we used to do. I look back in fondness at that time.

From Beginnings to Leadership Approach Today

So, that’s just a little digression, I guess, in our conversation. Maybe something that will come up a little bit later. I think it’s great that you share the story—that you were running cable and also how you got introduced to it. I think some people who look at your position, the president of a $4 billion organization, don’t take the time to think that you had a beginning too. They just see you fixed in this position: Zack Maguire, president. Boom, that’s you.

I know we’re going to spend a lot of time getting into the people side of this conversation today but maybe if we could start with Zach Maguire. If you were to talk about your rhythms, your strengths, how you communicate, how you plan, how you delegate, how you empower, maybe what you’re good at there, what you’re not good at there—how do you see yourself at this stage in your career? What does it look like for you? What is your leadership approach, if that’s the best way to say it?

Zach’s Leadership Approach: Building a Team

Zach: Yeah. It’s changed a lot. As you start in your 20s, and now being in the business world for 25–30 years—over 30 years—my leadership style has changed a lot. As I knew we were going to talk about this, I reflected a lot on what kind of leader I was 25 years ago versus today.

What I keep coming back to is that leadership is really about building a team. To build a team, it’s just like in sports: everything has to click together. But at the core, it’s really understanding what makes someone tick. What are the needs of that person? The more you can understand what drives them, the better you can help them. Which helps the team be successful.

Jim: Well, how do you find that out?

Zach: I really think it comes back to conversations. It’s not about the business. We always jump to, “How’s the P&L doing?” But even that simple question—when you call someone up, before you get to business—”Hey, how are you today?” Because you never know what someone’s going through.

Jim: Right.

Seeing the Person Beyond the Role

Zach: What happened that morning? What happened the night before? What’s going on in their personal life? Which matters, because those things can be heavy, good, or bad. But if you really understand what’s happening with them—even from a health perspective, or with their parents or their kids—the better you’ll be able to help them be successful.

Jim: Why do you think so much of leadership doesn’t talk about that?

Zach: Look, there’s what, 36,000 business books on leadership published annually, I think, something like that. And none of them talk about that. None of them talk about just sitting down and getting to know that person as a person, and really what makes them tick.

Jim: It sounds soft to a lot of people.

Zach: It does. Yeah, I think it does. Leadership is also about hiring, and you and I have talked a lot about that. But really, hiring someone that you don’t know, you can ask the best interview questions, you can do as much research on the person as you can, but at the end of the day, it’s a coin flip.

Jim: Yeah, it really is.

Zach: It really is. Quickly finding out if they’re going to be a good fit in the first 90 days is very important.

Hiring and the Concept of “Fit”

Lessons from Peter Drucker and the Hiring Challenge

Jim: You and I have talked about this at least 10 times, maybe 100 times. The person who has shaped me the most in the way I think about leadership and management was Peter Drucker, who’s no longer with us. But his ideas still radiate through a lot of my conversations. He said—and he was a global advisor, so he had tons of experience—as he got older, his insights were so powerful.

One of the things he said is that you should have a hiring process. You should figure out how you want to go through the process. But even if you create a great hiring process, even if the whole world looks at it and says, “Now that is a good hiring process,” you still only have a 33% chance of hitting a home run. That means 66% is going elsewhere.

He broke that up into halves. Half of the 66 is going to be a train wreck. And then the other half is maybe no harm, no foul. Which really brings your point to light. If leaders need to get better at anything, it’s about people.

Zach: Yeah. Actually, Jim, sometimes someone leaves an organization, or you have to exit them out of the organization. It’s not that they’re a bad person all the time. Sometimes they are. But at the end of the day, they just aren’t a good fit for the team.

Understanding “Fit” in Teams and Leadership

Jim: Now, sometimes people are calling “fit” a cop-out because we use that a lot. So, go into that more. Fit.

Zach: Yeah. Well, it’s a really good question. What is fit? Even if you look at sports teams, they could be the best player on the field, they could have the most experience, but they just don’t fit with that team, or maybe even the culture of the organization. Sometimes the entire culture of the organization can have a life of its own. When we have 400 plus offices across the United States, there’s different cultures within all of those units.

Jim: Fit is a real thing. The challenge is explaining how or why the person doesn’t fit.

Zach: Yeah. I think sometimes it can even be situational. They thought the job was going to be a certain way, they had early on a vision of what the job was going to be or what the culture of the company was going to be, and it doesn’t fit for them.

Jim: That’s a good example.

Zach: It could even be just timing.

Matching Leadership Styles to the Right Roles

Jim: Well, even if you were to hire me now, now that I’m much more self-aware than I was many years ago, what I know about myself that would directly relate to fit is that if you needed something started—and to me, “started” means from now for three years—I’m your guy. If you needed something to be turned around, if it is a mess and it needs to be turned around, that’s probably the same amount of time, now for three years, I’m your guy.

But if you’re looking for that maintainer, that steady Eddie who’s going to come in every day at a certain time, leave at a certain time, I’m not your guy.

Zach: Me neither.

Jim: I’m going to be bored to tears. If it’s crisis, I’m your guy. If it’s a big think tank, probably not.

Zach: I think determining what you are first and foremost, and then what you need to complement you as a leader, is also very important. I’m similar to you. I’m more of a turnaround, crisis type. That’s where I thrive and get motivated, partly because I’ve been put in those situations.

Jim: I think that’s why we understand each other.

The Role of Perspective, Safety, and Culture

Zach: Yeah. And you also need those people that can maintain the business. The P&L, the safety protocols, the project management—that kind of stuff just needs to work.

Jim: And age has something to do with it too. Perspective. I’m going to say something funny here. I think it’s funny. When I was younger and played golf, even though I’m small in stature, there was a day when I could hit the ball pretty decently. If you and I are playing golf and there’s a question of whether I might get it over the lake, and I’m younger, I’m going for it. Now I know I can’t get over the lake, so I’m going to lay up.

So, age—hopefully, not in all cases but in some—adds to the context. I’m going to lay up because I know I can’t and you know that. If you want somebody in your charity foursome to hit long off the tee, don’t call me. But if you want somebody who plays from 150 in pretty competitively, then call me.

So, a lot of times it’s not a personal thing. It really is, “Is it a fit?” But sometimes it’s a personal thing, don’t you think, too? There are some whose attitude—for example in safety—you want somebody who literally might be a pain in everybody’s butt because they’re so focused on safety. Because there is a loss of life in your business.

Zach: Yes, there is.

Building a Culture of Safety and Accountability

Jim: And so they’ve got to take it seriously. What a unique role to be head of safety. On one hand, they’ve got to be so diligent about it. On the other hand, they’ve got to be able to sell it.

Zach: Yep. And you really need to create a culture of allowing people to call things out. If they see something, say something. Right? To make sure that we can prevent– 100% of the accidents are preventable at the end of the day. And it’s not about fault. It’s not about who’s at fault. It’s not about what went wrong. It is about making sure that we can be repetitive and predictable around what we’re doing.

What’s interesting is you would think, there are electrical-type safety incidents, where a flash was called or get electrocuted, god-forbid. But mainly our safety issues are slips and falls, cuts, and the number one accident we have is driving—distracted driving specifically. So you think about it: we’re out here on these electrical lines all the time, but at the end of the day, it’s the things that happen driving to the job site, driving home.

Jim: Does your car do this? I just bought a brand new Land Cruiser, and I didn’t know it did this, but whenever I look away from the road, it not only gives me this sound, but also this message comes up. It says, “Distracted driver.”

Zach: Oh, yeah.

Complementary Leadership and the Inner Circle

Jim: Drives me crazy. You can’t even look around for a second. I do want to talk about safety a little bit more later, but let’s get back to what you’re saying about your leadership and that you were really looking at this thing called team, and that leadership ultimately is about building this team and complementing. Can we get a little personal?

Zach: Sure.

Jim: All right. So, let’s use what you’re trying to build right now, your inner circle. Listen, what is it that you’re trying to build around you right now? What type of person do you think will fit into this inner circle that you’re trying to build? What are you looking for from this person? And I’m assuming that some of the attributes will be to complement your leadership style.

Zach: Yeah. First and foremost, a good fit starts with someone that likes a lot of change.

Jim: Okay.

Zach: This business in particular has a lot of change happening, and there’s going to be over the next decade. There’s a lot that needs to get done. Having that team—and really the workforce in general—to get everything that needs to be done done is critical. I think being able to be nimble and embracing change, and forward leadership with everyone helping them be successful.

Balancing Structure and Flexibility in Leadership Teams

Jim: So too much rigidity—someone who really needs a rigid process, a rigid schedule, rigid expectations—probably doesn’t fit. Okay.

Zach: Yeah. It can be very frustrating too. These big jobs can have a lot of different pitfalls. Making sure that we have the right project controls in place is a very tedious job. It’s someone that has to be very well documented. Attention to detail is crucial.

And that’s not me. I’m not good at that piece, but that has to be our foundation to make sure that everything works well together.

Jim: So, let me interpret that because it sounds a little bit like they’re at odds with one another. You need somebody who is good at painting the train while it’s rolling down the tracks.

Zach: That’s actually really well said.

Jim: Okay. That makes sense to me. So, somebody who wants to create processes.

Zach: And we’re building the track at the same time.

Jim: And we’re building the track and the train. Those kinds of person exists, but they’re going to be a minority out there. That would then inform you that, “I really like this guy. I really like this gal. I really do, but probably not a fit.”

Zach: Yeah. I think we talked a little bit about the industry and what has to happen from a transformation perspective in the electrical world, specifically in power delivery, over the next two decades. We’re going to have to create those people. A lot of people got away from the trade, if you will, but this trade is actually a very good job. You can build a very good career.

Missing Generations of Talent and Leadership

Jim: Man, that’s really good insight in the trade. That’s really good insight. I’ve talked to some on your team, some older than both of us. We look back to the 1980s, give or take. There were a lot of sociological, economic earthquakes that happened in the ’80s in gas, in the world of finance—the global, international world of finance—and it eventually rippled out into infrastructure things where there seemed to be this massive swipe at relieving so many people out of their profession in those verticals that when those things came back, we were missing a generation or two of people.

So this idea of almost recreating leaders—and not just leaders, craftsmen—right, in these areas. That seems pretty insightful, which brings me back to maybe it’s a time for big companies to come back to management training ideas.

Leading Versus Managing

Zach: I think that’s where we started, Jim, and the more I think about it sitting here today, it’s where we need to invest our time and dollars. Because if we don’t have that—create that new leader, if you will—to be able to lead, not manage. Not manage; people don’t need to be managed. They need to be led.

Jim: Led.

Zach: I really think that’s important, and there’s a very small yet specific distinction between the two. Being a teammate, not just the boss. The days of the boss are gone. It’s leading; it’s much different than being a boss.

Jim: That’s good.

Zach: We can go out and tell someone what to do all day long, but actually getting them to do it is much more difficult. But that’s the trick, and that’s the art of leadership—being able to lead the team as a team, and not only as a leader but as a teammate because you’re part of that team as the leader.

Workforce Mobility and Retention Challenges

And to your point earlier about making sure that you have the right complements that complement your weaknesses, and vice versa for them as well.

Jim: Interesting.

Zach: Because that builds loyalty and team members that will be with you for decades.

Jim: So while you’re looking to build this team, what are the challenges that you seem to face over and over again in our current world?

Zach: Yeah. In this industry in particular, I know all industries have these issues, but it does seem like there are a lot of people that move around from company to company. Part of it is where the work is. If a particular company has a big job—for example, we’re doing a really big job for Indie Energy out in Nevada—we need, at the peak, I think 600 people working on the job.

When you have a big job like that, people will come to that job. But when that job’s over, unless you have something to back it up, they’ll go to the next job, which could be with a different company.

Jim: So that has bred the culture right there—the practicalities of this kind of work. Is there any way to keep those people on the payroll?

Zach: Well, yeah. That’s what we spend a lot of time doing. We’ve got this job today. We need to make sure that we can put those folks to work on the next job. We really want them to stay with the company. Investing in them with further training programs, and sometimes even a different skill set within the job. We have people very specific to pulling wire, as an example, but can we also train them to be able to work in the substations, as an example?

The Long-Term Outlook and Industry Transformation

At the end of the day, you have to have the work—the next job—and know when one job is going to ramp down and the next one’s going to ramp up.

Jim: There really isn’t such a thing as backlog, because your customer is not going to wait.

Zach: Yeah. Some of these jobs are happening all at the same time from the power needs. I think the line we’re building today will take us the next three years to build those lines. It’s over 700 miles of transmission.

Jim: Sounds like the only solution is a global hostile takeover.

Zach: Yeah. Well, that line as an example is already oversold. And it’s not even commissioned yet.

Jim: Wow.

Zach: It’s pretty amazing when you think about what’s happening.

Jim: So what happens? The developers go somewhere else?

Zach: Well, once that’s built, there are a bunch of those in the pipeline that will continue to be built too. What’s happening with the data centers is driving a lot of this as well.

Training and Attracting the Next Generation of Workers

Jim: How are you wooing the younger people into this vertical? Does MasTech have a plan of how it’s wooing the young?

Zach: Yeah. So, in our union business, that’s where the union is very helpful. An organization called Nika and they really breed a lot of these people into this industry for us.

Jim: Revitalizing the whole trade industry.

Zach: Exactly. And specifically in transmission and distribution. Now, on the non-union side, that’s where we as a company have to really build that workforce. We bring people in with no skills, and we can train them from starting as a ground person to becoming a lineman. We have those programs specifically on our non-union side of the business.

Admiring Sacrifice and Dedication in the Field

Jim: What do you most appreciate when you are looking out at the horizon and you see your team and see things that make you smile, when you want to pat them on the back and affirm them? What are those things that you see?

Zach: Well, starting at the lineman level first, I’m really big on the field organization. At the end of the day, that pays all of our paychecks. What I really admire about the linemen specifically is the amount of time they spend away from their families. A lot of these folks, they could live–

Jim: Live in a motel.

Zach: They could have a house, but if the work’s in Nevada, they have a fifth wheel and live out there. Sometimes their families live with them, and they create these communities.

Jim: Almost like the rodeo.

Zach: Yeah. They really do. They create communities that look after one another. Living in the middle of nowhere, it can be very extreme heat—obviously in Nevada—but they take care of their own. I really admire the dedication they have to the work. They’re paid very well, so it’s a good-paying job. But there’s a lot of sacrifice that comes with it.

I think a lot of us take on those sacrifices in our jobs, but the time they spend away is unique. It doesn’t quite make you smile, but in the same breath, that dedication to the work and where the work is.

Jim: Good. What about your management and executive-level leaders? What are you looking for from them that makes you smile when you see it?

The Importance of Proactive Leadership and Addressing Challenges

The Strain of Firefighting Versus Proactive Leadership

Zach: I really love when I see people being proactive. That’s hard to do when you’re in the thick of it. I feel like sometimes we’re always just firefighting. We’re fighting for the monthly P&L, for the job presentation we have to do, the pitch to the customer, the customer interaction, whatever they need. You always feel like you’re firefighting.

When I see leaders, executives, or management being proactive—maybe seeing something before it happens—that’s really cool to see. That’s quite an art as well.

Jim: They take the initiative, they get out in front of it, and you find out about it as it’s happening or after it’s happening versus the monkey being thrown on your shoulders. Yeah, that’s where we got this. That came from one of your MasTech employees. I was speaking in Coral Gables to a crew a few weeks ago I guess. One of the executives at MasTech—I called her a monkey magnet.

I was endearing, kind of being mean at the same time. I said, “You keep taking on things that someone in your team should be taking on. We call that the monkey.” She gave that to me before I got up to speak in front of everybody as a reminder. So that’ll sit there for a while as a reminder that leadership is also about empowering others to solve problems, not to become the problem solver ourselves.

The Next Generation’s Perspective on Leadership

Let me ask you this, Zach. You look back at 30 years of leadership. I don’t know how much to believe from a lot of the surveys and what the higher education is telling and what sociology is telling us. Sometimes I have a little bit of cynicism towards it. Or maybe it’s just who I attract in my relationships, because I know a lot of young people who are ambitious and going after it.

But supposedly there’s this growing wave of younger people who just don’t have an interest in leading, or they see leading as something completely foreign to what we’re talking about today. But there are definitely those out there who– They see leadership as a way of rallying people. They see it as doing something together, and naturally there’s this upward mobility desire they have.

I don’t know whether to ask for the top three things, but what are the things that you would say to those younger leaders?

Here’s what I think the truth is. I think a lot of them are looking at paths forward and they don’t see them. They don’t see paths forward in so many organizations. They just don’t see it. Even in entrepreneurialism, they don’t see it. But let’s say their desire and passion. They want to have upward mobility, they want to accomplish things, they want to lead. What are some things that you would say to them to encourage them, to help them with that path forward?

Advice for Younger Leaders: Be Present

COVID and Leadership Visibility

Zach: Yeah. I think COVID was really a huge disservice for the younger generations. This whole working from home—you can disappear. One of the things that I had early on was getting visibility, being visible to management.

Jim: Oh, good point.

Zach: Being able to present to management, being able to work on something for someone got you recognized.

Jim: Being available is half the battle.

Zach: Yeah, it really is. Actually, you see a lot of CEOs right now trying to get people to come back to the office.

Jim: Are they still not in the office?

Zach: The CEO of AT&T just came out and said, “Five days a week. If this isn’t the place for you, this isn’t the place for you.” But this is five years later, and we’re still talking about this, or rationally even saying maybe it’s hybrid—you can come in three days a week.

Leading On-Site: Being Present

At the end of the day, you want to talk about leadership. My folks didn’t work from home. They couldn’t work from home. They never went home, they were out in the business we have. Our installers were still going to people’s homes.

Jim: You can’t put power lines up from home.

Zach: You cannot do that from home. If you’re out there and you’re leading those teams, you’ve got to be there with them.

Unfortunately, you have to travel to be with the teams because we’re all across the United States. That’s tough. There’s a lot of travel required. But you have to be there. You have to be present with them to really understand what’s happening. A spreadsheet can only tell you so much. The P&L tells a good story, but really getting out there and seeing what’s happening in the office, in the yard, on the job—there’s nothing that adds up to it. There’s nothing more valuable than actually seeing the work.

Jim: Okay. So I think the number one principle you’re sharing, if I’m hearing you in broad terms, is that if you have ambition to lead, being present is non-negotiable. You have to be there.

Reprogramming a Work-from-Home Generation

Zach: I totally agree.

I think especially for the younger generations that entered the workforce working from home. I work from home in certain instances—maybe before I go to the airport or whatever.

Jim: Gosh, I’ve never thought about that. There are people who entered the workforce working from home.

Zach: Yeah, the first job.

Jim: And that’s all they know. Wow.

Zach: So that’s what they’re used to. What seems simple to you and I, “You have to go to the office.” It’s almost like you scratch your heads, “What do you mean I have to go to the office?” They’re saying, “Wait a second. I’ve never been to an office.” So you’re talking about younger generations that you almost have to reprogram them on what the job is.

The Value of Office Interactions

Jim: I grew up in a day where I could not take work home because those were confidential files. So you had to go to the office to work. That’s a big one.

Zach: I think the more time we can spend with the younger generations to help them understand it’s not about penalizing them to have to come to an office, but really that’s being visible. The value of being seen and being able to work. There are people in my office—if I wasn’t in the office and I walk by their office and we have a 5–10 minute chat, I would never have that interaction. That may be a person I wouldn’t pick up the phone and call.

So the value of being able to walk around and have conversations can trigger ideas, spark new ideas, spark potential problems that, if I was just going through my day with my meetings or phone calls I need to make, that interaction could change the direction of the day. It can actually change the direction of the company.

Decline of Hospitality

Jim: Wow. That’s the first chapter of my next book that I’ve been working on. It’s entitled Imagination. It’s almost weird that I would feel the need to write a chapter about imagination in a world that has created the iPhone, the laptop, computers, AI. Yet I see less and less creativity and imagination and problem solving.

You just said something, Zach, that triggered an aha in me. Sales itself has been delegated to a sales funnel where even technology is doing all the sales for people and for organizations, where the salesperson—you don’t see too many of them anymore.

Here’s my theory. Run with me here. You can disagree if you want, but I see that inability to sell somebody on an idea now spreading to other disciplines, like hospitality, where if you don’t ask for it as a client, they’re not going to offer it. I see hospitality on a massive decline.

I’m kind of a butthead when it comes to hospitality. We’re known around here for being restaurant critics. My wife and I are having a hard time finding a place to go that we say, “All right, now this is—” We’re not just talking about the food. We’re talking about the whole experience.

Then the hotels. We’ve been looking for a place to go for a little vacation, and it’s amazing to me how some of the hospitality venues are disappearing into all this self-serve kind of stuff. I think that’s related, going back to a comment you made, that what you really appreciate about managers and leaders in your organization is when they’re proactive.

Proactive Leadership

I mean, you used to have to run from salespeople. Now you’re looking for them. Where are they?

Zach: It’s pretty crazy.

Jim: Is it just me?

Zach: No. You’re right. There’s nothing that beats a conversation with a human being. The IVRs you get thrown into when you call—that’s maddening. If I want to order a cup of coffee, I don’t want to do it from a kiosk. I want to talk to the person and say, “Hey, this is what I’d like.” Simple but it’s–

Jim: Well, I know you don’t eat at fast foods, but my grandkids bugged me six months ago that they wanted something from McDonald’s—I forget what it was. We ended up going into this new McDonald’s, and it was the funniest thing you’ve ever seen. They had kiosks everywhere, and they had an employee assigned to every kiosk teaching people how to use the kiosk instead of taking their order. It was ironic. Funny stuff.

Protecting People, Business, and Customers

Okay, so you’ve mentioned this proactive, this take initiative, this presence. Anything else that you would share with people that are trying to work themselves up and become a better leader?

Zach: Yeah. Our team came up with something a couple years ago that I think sticks and defines the overall leadership process: really protecting your business. Protecting your people first and foremost, protecting the business, and protecting the customer. If you do all three of those things—think about those three things each day—that really drives the whole organization. If you can get everyone thinking that way, everything takes care of itself.

Jim: I heard you give that talk for the first time, and I’ve heard you give it multiple times, and the cool news is I’ve actually heard it repeated by leadership down as far as a director that I met virtually. I have still not met this person in person, but he verbatim gave that talk back to me. So it’s working.

The Need for Repetition in Casting Vision

I think one of the other things that leaders get frustrated with is that they said something, and so why do they have to say it again and again? But you do. Whatever the vision is that you’re casting, you have to say it again and again and again. Just like with your wife or your husband—if you’re married and you didn’t say “I love you” today, that’s a mistake. You have to say it again and again and again. And to your kids and all of that.

I want to run with that here. But here’s my “but.” There’s a gap I’m finding that when leaders cast vision, how do we know that it’s been received in a way that it’s being implemented? They might be able to repeat it. When that young man repeated your speech back to me, first I said to him, “Where did you hear that?” His boss is one of your main inner circle leaders, and he said that’s where he heard it from. I thought, “Okay, that’s even more awesome.”

I’m getting totally excited about hearing this. Then I turned around and asked him, “So what does that look like on a daily basis?” So now that’s what we’re working on through there.

One of the things I’d like to add to what you’re saying is: you’re saying protect your people—in your context it’s safety; protect your business—that’s the mental ability to manage a P&L, to manage a business, to understand principles of business. What was the third one?

Zach: And protecting the customer.

Evaluating Leadership with Honesty

Jim: And protecting the customer. Those are the three things. Here’s what I wonder about leaders: if they were given that as the vision, the parameters in which to operate, I wonder if they have learned how to take enough time—due to the firefighting you’re talking about—to stop.

I don’t think it takes much more than a half hour a week, maybe an hour at the most, to look back at their previous week and say, “How did I do in those three areas? And does my calendar reflect that?” Because one thing I’m trying to teach right now, Zach, in our work is that you have your calendar for this week; you have your calendar for next week. But whose calendar actually works out that way?

Zach: Never.

Using Calendars as a Leadership Tool

Jim: So what I’m suggesting we do is, at the end of every day, go back to that calendar and make it reflect what actually happened—for this purpose—so that when I look back at the past week, I can see what actually happened. Then I can ask the question, “How did I take care of my people, my business, and my customer?”

Then, hopefully, look forward and be proactive—using your term—and start blocking, making sure, and now looking at appointments that I agreed to that maybe I should get out of, as embarrassing as that is.

One of the things I’ve noticed that has cost people the most in their leadership is that the most expensive thing you own is your ego. Sometimes your ego causes you to stick with something just because you said you would, and you’ve interpreted that as character and integrity, instead of saying, “Hey, I made a mistake agreeing to this. I am so sorry. How can I make it up to you? But I cannot do that.” Or simply letting our own hubris, our own pride, get in the way of making some of the decisions we need to make. “I blew it. I own this. It’s my mistake.”

But that was a long dissertation to say: I wonder how many are learning what that really means, and do they have the discipline of evaluating, looking back, and then making adjustments as a way of leading on a daily basis? Because sometimes I think leaders think of grand slams instead of base hits.

Asking Questions and Avoiding Assumptions

Zach: I think you hit on something we should make sure we capture: it’s okay to tell your team that you made a mistake. You don’t want to overdo it, but you definitely–

Jim: You don’t want to be in a therapy session.

Zach: Yes, but I do think you can actually say, “Hey, I messed this up. I made a bad hire. I made a mistake, and here’s what I’m doing to fix it.” It kind of goes along with “there’s no such thing as a dumb question.” I think that’s one of the things that really petrifies people: “I don’t want to ask a stupid question.”

I’m a little longer in the tooth now. I’m probably a little more comfortable in my own skin because of the years in the seat. But coming into this new world—into power delivery—I didn’t know anything about it. I mentioned that. I was very upfront, “Hey, I don’t know anything about this business, so I’m going to ask really dumb questions, probably.”

Asking Questions Without Fear

But it’s kind of funny. I think it’s going to be a dumb question, and actually it’s a pretty good question. It’s interesting. I think you just have to make sure you do not feel bad about asking a dumb question.

Jim: And I think there’s a reason behind that, because I think it matches leadership’s number one mistake, which is we assume. We assume that this is obvious. We assume that you’ve run the same road that I have, that you’ve got burned the same way I’ve been burned. I don’t know why we do that, but we do that.

So when a younger leader thinks, “Maybe I shouldn’t ask this question,” or they’re thinking a question but it stays in their head, it probably needs to come out through their mouth and be asked. Because then what it does is it helps us. I think the relational dynamic that happens from questions is that it reminds the older leader—we’re speaking from an older perspective. Hopefully people will take this to heart.

Rediscovering Knowledge Through Questions

When you ask those questions, in a weird way, it also reminds us of what we know. We’ve already forgotten what we know.

Zach: Yeah, right.

Jim: It gets shoved down into our assumption box. It’s just there. Because I know I’m not the smartest guy in the world, so if I know something, you probably already know it. And so often when young people ask me questions—I was just at a quick meeting at Chipotle the other day with a young man who asked me two or three questions—I was delighted to answer those questions. I forgot that at that age, I didn’t know that either. Right? Or I didn’t have the insight to that either.

Anything else you would share with a younger leader?

The Art of Leadership: Above Deck, Below Deck

Zach: Yeah. From a leadership perspective, I want to make sure I hit this. You’ve seen the movie Master and Commander?

Jim: Yes.

Zach: Okay. Very good leadership movie.

Jim: Absolutely.

Zach: I actually think having someone take you through a movie that’s tied to leadership is a good way to learn about leadership. What’s cool about that is what’s called above deck, below deck.

Jim: This is an older ship.

Zach: Yep, older ship. But what’s neat about watching that leadership in that movie—

Jim: Can I hit pause for a minute?

Coaching, Movies, and Leadership Discovery

Zach: Absolutely.

Jim: Because what you’re talking about is so important, what leaders don’t do anymore. How I got exposed to that movie was I hired a coach. For the life of me I cannot remember the context, but I hired a coach. The first thing he said was, “There’s a showing of a movie I want us to go see.” It was one of those theaters that had the old movies. “I want you to meet me there at such and such time.” And we went to the theater together and watched that movie.

Zach: Originally when it came out?

Jim: When it came out.

Zach: No kidding.

Jim: Yeah.

Zach: Did you recognize the leadership capabilities the first time you saw it?

Jim: Well—No.

Zach: No, I didn’t either.

Jim: No, that’s the honest answer. In fact, I was thinking, “Why am I sitting here in the theater with another dude watching a movie?” But then afterwards, we debriefed over a cheeseburger, and obviously, I clued in after that.

Above Deck, Below Deck: The Balance of Leadership

Zach: Yeah. Well, what’s neat about it is leaders can get tied up below deck. And if you never come up to see what’s happening above deck—Right. He comes up, and that’s the strategy piece. If you’re above deck, you’re making sure you’re not going to run into an iceberg or whatever the case may be. But you also need to go below deck to make sure, to your point, that the assumptions you have are actually right.

Jim: Yeah.

Zach: And making sure. But that balance—how much time? Because what happens is you get sucked below deck a lot. I know you talk about the calendar piece, which I could do a lot better job. Almost every time we talk, you mention something about that. But going back and actually saying, “Okay, what did I actually do?” Really those three thing, it takes some time, but it doesn’t take a lot of time.

If you do it a couple times, you’ll probably be shocked. Number one, “Wow, I could have been a lot more productive. Everything I did last week—none of them went to those three things.” It’s hard not to have one of those line up, but spending that time and trying to balance how much time you spend below deck and above deck—and what you do when you’re below deck versus what you do above deck—I think is the art of the leadership piece.

Preparing to Close and the Big Question

Jim: Zach, I want to ask you one more broad question before we close this episode. Before I ask you the question, would you come do this again?

Zach: Oh, I’d love to.

Jim: Yeah, because I think we’ve just scratched the surface on a lot of things. From my vantage point, we talked about how many employees you have. We talked about the reality of literal death that happens in your business. You’re also a publicly traded company, which we didn’t even get a chance to talk about, and the nuances of that. We’ve talked about a lot of things that you’ve learned.

But my purpose in life—besides my faith, what’s built on top of my faith—is shaping leaders who are healthy and effective. That’s a short way of saying it. As you know in our relationship, I’ve always been concerned about your health—spiritually, emotionally, relationally, physically. A person in your role—you’re on a plane all the time. I don’t know of anybody who flies more than you do. Where are you at in taking care of yourself in all those aspects?

Prioritizing Personal Health and Well-being

Zach: I was kind of hoping you wouldn’t get to that question because I thought we were running out of time. Well, I got to tell you, I don’t do a very good job of it. I say that in light. There are times I do a very good job of that or am thoughtful about it, but there’ll also be weeks that go by and I take a step back and go, “Wow, I really neglected this or that.”

Jim: A day turns into a month really quick.

Zach: It does. So you have to really—it goes back to that calendar time. You actually have to– I’m not very effective at this either, but you have to put it on your calendar. If you put your workout on your calendar just like you would a meeting, what will happen? You’ll actually do it. You’ll at least think about it.

Jim: Right.

Zach: And if it’s not on your calendar, you just run out of time.

Jim: And if you don’t do it, in your evaluation process, you get another reminder of it.

Zach: Yeah. Exactly. So I think all of those type of things—you can actually go back and see how many workouts did I get done, or how much time did I spend with my wife or my kids or whatever the case may be. What’s important to you gets done.

Staying Mindful Amid Chaos

And I think that’s where you have to be mindful, especially in these chaotic times where you’re chasing a P&L, chasing a project, chasing a job that may have gone bad, or all the different stresses of the job. It’s not just my job. It’s everyone’s job in the organization. That’s where we talked about earlier—remember—we touched on you don’t know what’s happening to that person or what that person’s actually going through today. So really being in tune there of what’s happening will make you a better leader, a better teammate ultimately.

Finding Renewal in Reading and Walking

Jim: So I’m not going to let you off the hook.

Zach: What do I do?

Jim: Yeah.

Zach: Well, I actually, I don’t like to read a lot. Because of the stuff I have to read. But I’ve tried to spend more time reading stuff I enjoy. Even if it’s just a fun book. I’m rereading right now A Pirate Looks at Fifty—Jimmy Buffett’s book. I read it a long time ago, but I’ve reread it, and it’s interesting—I’m picking up different things this time around. It’s something instead of looking at your phone or watching a movie—it quieter actually.

Jim: It slows you down.

Zach: It is. Just reading a book. I’ve also been very mindful of walking. Spending time walking. If I just get out, even five minutes on the hour, and take one quick lap around the building, that time outside, the natural light—because of all the blue lights we’re exposed to on the screens—just that five minutes is really mind-clearing and something I’ve been very mindful of. Just taking a quick walk. That simple.

Family, Faith, and Life Transitions

Jim: What about your family and your faith? How are you doing in that?

Zach: My girls are getting older now too.

Jim: They are.

Zach: It’s a different stage in life. They’re on the go. I try to spend as much time hitting a school event and making sure I’m mindful around my schedule to hit those events with them. Sometimes I do a good job there, sometimes I don’t. When you have a child getting ready to go away to college, that’s a little scary too. All of a sudden they’re going to be gone.

Jim: It is.

Zach: So making sure to schedule those events as well.

Conclusion

Jim: I press you on those things because your strengths are so obvious. The reason why you struggle with your calendar is because the opposite of that is you’re extremely agile. You’re one of the most agile people I have ever met. I’ve also known you to be an extremely heart-led leader. That’s what I would call you. You’re smart, you’re intelligent, but you’re a heart guy. That’s how I would describe you.

With that comes generous and compassionate. You didn’t really talk about this, but I see you as extremely patient with your team. You want the best for your team and I think they know that. They sense that. So I know that though you are a guy on the run, running this huge organization, I also know you to be a pretty deep thinker and a feeler. Knowing you is an honor and a privilege to walk through this journey with you because it hasn’t been boring.

Zach: No, it has not.

Jim: It hasn’t been boring.

Zach: I appreciate it. It’s very kind, by the way.

Jim: Yeah. No, I mean those things.

Zach: You’ve helped me with a lot of situations, which has been very helpful. I think that’s one of the other things I would say to anyone watching this today: make sure you get yourself a coach. You hire a coach for a sport, your trainer, whatever, to help you. An executive coach at any level can help you see your blind spots. I think that’s what you’ve helped me with over the years.

Future Plans

Jim: I think what I want to do next when we do this podcast again is—we’re so comfortable with each other—I think what we do is we don’t have an agenda. We just sit and talk about leadership. Talk about whatever and see what comes up. I think that’d be great.

Zach: That’d be great. I’d love it.

Jim: Zach Maguire, president, Power Delivery of MasTech. Thank you for being here.

Zach: Thanks, Jim.

Outro

Winston: Hey, thank you so much for joining us on the Today Counts Show. We’ve got so much more planned for you. Stay tuned and stay connected on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and subscribe on YouTube. And remember, today counts.

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