Episode 190: The Art of Making Deals (Genesis 21:22-34 Study)

—————————–

Today Counts Show Episode 188

Preview

Winston: Are we driven or are we led? And the context for the statement was: am I driven by trying to prove myself versus am I being led? As leaders, do we want to be known as the guy or girl, the person—we’re so competent, we’re so credible—that it’s easy to see us in the success, or in the achievement, or in the goal being met, or in the project being completed, or in humility?

Appreciation of our Supporters

Winston: Hey, before we jump into the podcast, we want to thank all our donors and supporters who make the Today Count Show possible. It’s through your generosity that we’re able to shape leaders through this content and this podcast. Be sure to like, subscribe, and follow wherever you find yourself coming across this content.

All right, let’s get to the podcast.

Introduction

Jim: I never get tired of saying welcome back to the Today Count Show. I never do. Pastor Winston Harris is joining me today. Winston, how are you doing today?

Winston: Doing well. Excited.

Jim: Yeah, we have shared a long week together. It’s been a busy week. We don’t have time to go into that, but I guess you and I are going to be walking through. We’re going to be finishing up this last section in Genesis 21 in what we call the Genesis Project.

And the reason why we pulled this slice out is it just didn’t feel like it was flowing with the previous narrative, where we’re looking at a family breaking up and going in two different directions.

So without further ado, I think what I’ll do is I’ll set this up.

Genesis 21 Setup

Folks, what we’re talking about here is we have a king and we have Abraham that come together to create a contract—or in those days, probably what would be considered more of a covenant and a contract. So I think it’s interesting to talk about. I’m going to read through it, and then Winston and I will dive in. We’ll talk a little bit of theology, a little bit of philosophy, but we’ll also see if we can pull out some application that we can use today.

A Covenant Between Two Leaders

So verse 22 says this:

About this time, Abimelek came with Phicol—I’m going to call him Ph-aye-icol, could be Ph-ee-col, I don’t know—his army commander, to visit Abraham. Okay? So he came out to pursue Abraham.

And then he says this: “God is obviously with you, helping you.” He’s speaking to Abraham. “Helping you in everything you do.”

Verse 23, he goes on and says, “Swear to me.” This is strong language. “Swear to me in God’s name.” Now, this is interesting. This is the word for Abraham’s God. “Swear to me in your God’s name that you will never deceive me, my children, or any of my descendants.

“I have been loyal to you.” He gives history. He’s referring to history in their previous encounters. “So now swear that you will be loyal to me and to this country where you are living as a foreigner.”

Remind me to talk about loyalty, Winston, when I get done reading this. I wasn’t thinking about talking about that today, but I had a conversation earlier today with somebody who told me that he values loyalty. And I asked him, “Loyalty to whom? Loyalty to what?” And that became a very interesting discussion. We live in a soundbite world, and so I think we need to hold one another accountable to our soundbites—to go a little deeper than that.

The Dispute Over the Well

Then Abraham replies. He says, “Yes, I swear to it.” He swears to what? And he swears to not deceiving Abimelek and his heritage, his family.

Then Abraham complains. So after he says, “Yes, okay, I’m in agreement. I don’t want to do that to you,” he brings up a topic. He says:

“Then Abraham complained to Abimelek about a well that Abimelek’s servants had taken by force from some of Abraham’s servants.”

The king replies this way: “This is the first I’ve heard of it.” So he claims ignorance. I’m going to believe him at face value, especially since he is coming with this reverence for Abraham’s God and frankly, the God that he met, right?

“I have no idea who is responsible,” he says. “You have never complained about this before.” It’s almost like, “Well, why didn’t you tell me about this before? Why are you bringing this up now?”

The Treaty of Beersheba

Verse 27: Abraham apparently doesn’t seem to respond to that, except that he goes into action—kinesthetic action, movement.

Abraham then gave some of his sheep, goats, and cattle to Abimelek. So I assume the conversation continued, and the author is just skipping down to this next event. Abraham then gave some of his sheep, goats, and cattle to Abimelek. Why? They made a treaty. So it seems to be connected.

Now they’re going from “Swear to me you don’t hurt me, I’ve been good to you.” Now, he says, “I agree.” But then there’s an exchange.

But Abraham also took seven additional female lambs and set them off by themselves. Abimelek asked, “Why have you set these seven apart from the others?”

Abraham replied, “Please accept these seven lambs to show your agreement—to show that you agree with me, that you believe me, really—that I dug this well.”

Then he named the place Beersheba, which means “well of the oath,” because that was where they had sworn the oath.

Worship and Legacy

Verse 32 says: “After making their covenant at Beersheba, Abimelek left with the commander of his army, and they returned home to the land of the Philistines.

Then Abraham planted a tamarisk tree at Beersheba. And there he worshiped the Lord, the Eternal God, to be clear. And Abraham lived as a foreigner in Philistine country for a long time.”

So there you have it. This chapter ends with two people who knew each other—two leaders who had previous encounters. They were a bit scary as well, and they are coming together, and they are clarifying how they can coexist.

The Compliment: “God is obviously with you”

Winston: Yeah, we kind of talked about this before we jumped on. If you’re the casual reader and you’re reading through this, you’re like, “I have no idea what’s really even happening here. Why is this even mentioned? What’s the value? How is this helpful?”

Which I think, part of it too, is because we’re doing this in a snapshot—kind of, in some ways, isolated in and of itself. Taking any of this out of context isn’t helpful, right? This is obviously part of the greater story. So we always have to keep that in mind.

But leaning in here specifically, some things that kind of jump out to me: this idea—the statement—“God is obviously with you, helping you in everything you do.”

As you were reading that, I was just thinking about how sometimes you could read that and be offended a little bit because you’re like, “So are you saying that I’m so bad at what I’m doing, that because there’s success, there’s obviously a supernatural reason why this is happening? Is it pretty clear that I’m a pretty average guy?”

Jim: And so it’s almost like, “Well, look at you. Obviously, God has his hands on you because you couldn’t do this. I mean, he didn’t even have a home.”

Winston: Exactly. Initially, when I read it, I was like, “Oh man, what a noble compliment.” Then I was like, “Wait a minute. Is he also thinking, ‘God has to be with that guy because there’s no way that guy could do that?’”

Driven or Led? A Heart Check for Leaders

Which I think speaks to humility. As leaders, do we want to be known as the guy or girl, the person—we’re so competent, we’re so credible—that it’s easy to see us in the success, or in the achievement, or in the goal being met, or in the project being completed?

Or in humility, in the way we carry ourselves, in the way that we receive celebration, the way that things play out. Not that we’re incompetent or insecure or poor stewards, but is there something that is obvious about the fact that God is with us—that we’re led by something beyond ourselves?

I heard this recently, and it’s been kind of messing me up as I’m processing it: are we driven or are we led? And the context for the statement was using this idea of being driven by past things. I am driven by insecurities. I’m driven by wanting to elevate myself above others. I’m driven by trying to prove myself.

Versus: am I being led by a vision? Am I being led by something greater than myself? Am I being led by the needs that I get to serve?

And so I think sometimes you can obviously see what presence is on your leadership—what presence is being a catalyst to the things that are happening in your life and in your leadership.

I just think it’s an interesting statement: “God is obviously with you.” What was obvious? Why was it obvious?

Even thinking about our own leadership and our own journeys—what is obvious about our lives? Is it obvious that God is with us?

God’s Presence Through the Ages

Jim: Yeah, you spurred on some more ideas in my mind as you were talking—listening to you.

I think about when you read through the stories in the Old Testament, and as Israel continues to make their move into the Promised Land, God reveals himself to many of these kings and nations. Some of them said things like in this example. Their theology was wishy-washy at best. They were trying to figure it out. They had a hierarchy of gods, they would sacrifice. It’s not like they were atheists—at least the majority we read about.

And then Abraham’s God makes himself known in dreams, in men like Abraham where, “Yeah, you can’t touch Abraham. If you touch Abraham, you touch Abraham’s wife—you’re now dealing with me.” So he’s getting the attention.

It’s interesting today, if you think about our culture today—whether you’re talking about Western culture or even internationally. How is God making himself known today, where kings of other nations—or even our own—take a step back and go, “Wait a second. There is something to this.”

That doesn’t seem to be in play right now. Right now, there seems to be some bristling. There seem to be lines drawn. There doesn’t seem to be a desire to create a covenant. This kind of thing. I didn’t think about that until we talked a little bit more.

The Consequences of Belief

So I think we’ve established one thing out of this:

Number one is that when you follow God—when you believe in God—let’s just start at its most principle place: if you believe in God, that does something. I’m not talking about the gospel. I’m just saying, if you become a God-fearer—if you believe God exists—ideas have consequences. And so that moves you forward.

And then at some point, you are confronted by the gospel, which is basically God making himself known more clearly through Christ.

Why? Then that is a chasm that has been created between God and man. And Jesus is that bridge—so to speak—that gate, that Savior for us.

And then I think it goes to the next step—that if we follow in that way, that will have consequences. That will stick out, because more and more, it is in contrast to culture.

And as we know, Winston, if you take the story of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego—it wasn’t their dedication to God that got the attention of those foreign leaders. It was their dedication to God in that place.

If they were doing that in Jerusalem, no one would even look that way. But now they’re doing it in a foreign land, and it’s opposite of what everybody else is doing. So it sticks out even more.

Faith and Culture in Contrast

The United States of America has benefited—regardless of where you stand on whether we were founded as a Christian nation or not (and people are still arguing about that and throwing mud at each other)—we can certainly say without checking our brains out that this nation has benefited from the Christian message, has benefited from Christian mission work, has benefited from the establishment of law and order going as far back as the Ten Commandments.

And so in that way, I just think that—and maybe that’s why the fight in America is so strong—because if you believe that, that is God showing himself. But if you don’t believe that, then you can reject the idea that God has blessed us.

Instead, something else has blessed us—or, of course, many don’t believe we’re blessed. Many don’t.

So I’m not trying to push towards politics as much as I am talking about culture.

And so here is this clash between Abraham and his clan—a culture clash with Abimelek and the Philistines.

Salt and Light: Standing Out in Culture

Jim: Where my mind goes with the idea of standing out in culture is Matthew 5. Jesus is talking about being salt and light. He’s using language that the audience would know in that day—that salt was a preservative.

Specifically, there were no fridges back then. You’re not just putting meat in the fridge to make it last longer. You’re actually wrapping it in seaweed to preserve the meat. And once it ran its course—loses its saltiness, as Jesus goes on to say—what is it good for? It gets trampled under feet.

The houses were kind of staggered in the cities back then, and people could literally walk on the houses as they would walk on steps. So, people would toss the seaweed on the roof, only to be trampled. This idea—this parallel, this word picture—that Jesus is trying to speak to the audience of the day, and to the believer today, is that we’re to be preservatives, set in the places He sets us.

God’s Placement and Purpose in Everyday Life

We are in culture. God places us strategically in culture—in the jobs that we’re at, the neighborhoods we’re in, the schools, wherever you travel—your supermarkets, your coffee shops. All of this has purpose. God is this master designer. He’s placing you in these spaces in culture. Your culture. The culture of following Jesus. The values you understand biblically.

The way that you go about the normalcy of your life creates the opportunity to preserve God’s culture within that. But also, you are a beacon of light—salt and light. You are drawing people to yourself. People will notice that you’re going about what you’re doing differently, because you are placed in a culture that is operating from a different source—that’s getting their values from a different place.

The Quiet Power of the Kingdom

And so what I think is interesting about this statement—“God is obviously with you”—is, sometimes we make our faith so grandiose. We’re trying to be this superhero. We’re trying to be the Avengers.

But Jesus tells another story about what the Kingdom of God is like. And it’s like yeast. This invisible Kingdom that still grows. It grows from the inside out. It’s not this super powerful, loud Kingdom. It’s this subtle Kingdom. But it’s still effective.

And I feel like it’s such a perspective shift that sometimes we abdicate the responsibility of just being obedient and doing what we know to do—even in the simple, mundane moments of life—because that’s where the Kingdom moves forward.

It’s not in this, “Do I need to move to a whole other city to get this job that maybe will make me the CEO and then I’ll really be able to make a difference?”

No. Do you see the person in your coffee shop whose demeanor is different—and you just say, “Hey, can I pay for that coffee?” It can be that simple, but that powerful.

It’s being different. Having a different culture in the midst of culture. Being biblically—Scripture says—being in the world but not of the world.

Are you consumed by the culture around you? Or are you able to stand out simply by being obedient? I think that is one perspective.

Preserving What’s Good: The Deeper Meaning of Salt

Jim: Yeah. Another interesting point to the salt analogy that Jesus used—which I think you’re absolutely right in how you described it; that’s what I had learned as well—and He probably wasn’t thinking about this part of salt, but it’s still pretty powerful:

I learned that salt, when it is applied in the right way—the right kind, the right measure—it brings out the original flavors of the meat. So it brings out the good. It has a way of revealing what’s already there.

And what do we do with food that’s really, really bad? We just dump tons of salt on it—because there isn’t any flavor to get out. We’re trying to think that. And people think salt is a seasoning. But it’s not—it’s a mineral. And there’s a difference.

A seasoning adds something. But salt, as a mineral, draws out what’s already there. It brings out some of the natural goodness and flavors in the meat—when it’s done at the right time, at the right measure. Which is another analogy. Though, I agree with you—I think specifically what you were talking about with the seaweed is what Jesus had in mind. It makes the most sense.

Story Ad

Winston: There have been seasons in my life where I’ve looked back and thought: “What was that even about? Did I grow in that season? Did I get better? Am I still stuck in that season?”

If you have similar thoughts, I want to introduce you to a book called Story: The Art of Learning from Your Past. This book, written by Jim Piper, shares principles and stories that help us get unstuck and step into the future we’ve always wanted.

Be sure to stop by LeadTodayCommunity.co to grab your copy today.

Loyalty, Clarity, and Confronting Ambiguity

The Complexity of Loyalty

Jim: I’m not sure they had great schools for chefs in those days to pull out these other nuances of what up.

Well, let’s go on and talk about this second idea. I think in this text, we see two leaders ironing out an oath.

Winston: Before we get there, in the very next sentence it gets into that loyalty space—which you wanted to touch on.

Jim: Oh yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

I was speaking with a young man today, and he was talking to me about one of his dilemmas. And what made it a dilemma was that he said he was a loyal person.

When you look at this conversation, Abimelek’s logic is: “I’ve been good to you, so you need to be good to me.” Makes sense. I’m good to you, you be good to me. I’ve protected you, you protect me.

But the question I asked the young man was: “Loyal to what end? Loyal to whom? Loyal to what degree? What does that even mean?”

Because—like myself—he gave me a sound bite. And I use sound bites all the time. But we need to ask one another.

When Loyalty Becomes a Misunderstood Value

What I wonder about in this whole situation is—notice the conversation goes from loyalty to the well. And it’s like, “Okay, tit for tat. Yet, you stole the well from me. And we want to be loyal. So let’s iron that out.”

Let’s talk about that.

I think, in an interesting way, they started working on that loyalty idea. They started defining: what does loyalty mean? How far does it go?

Because there are limits. Logically, there are limits. And there’s context to what we mean by being loyal.

I think that’s all I wanted to say about that. I guess what I’m trying to encourage in myself—and in us—is: when I write a value, when I say “This is valuable to me,” I need to do a little more work and ask: “What does that mean? Where is my head at?”

Because if I throw “loyalty” out to you, your head might be over here and my head might be over there.

It’s very possible we could talk about loyalty, agree—and go in two different directions.

Loyalty could mean to you: “Don’t ever talk to me about anything that makes me uncomfortable.” Whereas loyalty to me says: “No, I owe it to you to talk about things that are uncomfortable.” That’s two ships passing in the night. Then one accuses the other of not being loyal.

So it can be a very broad word—is what I’m saying. And that’s what we see here in this contract. They’re ironing out some current misunderstandings. According to the king, ignorances. And those things needed to be– So I thought that was interesting as well.

Clarity Is Kindness

Winston: Yeah, I think I’ve heard it said: clarity is kindness.

Jim: Yeah. That’s good. I think that’s what’s happening here. They’re trying to clarify.

Winston: And I think that’s great leadership—to understand when there’s not clarity and not be afraid of confronting ambiguity. I’ve been in spaces where you can kind of hide in ambiguity—because it’s easier to avoid the potential tension that comes with having to get clear.

Because you’re coming at it from one angle, I’m coming at it from another angle, and whether I don’t have the energy, or I don’t want to engage in the work it requires to get clear and get on the same page—or various other reasons—I think people try to circumvent clarity.

People abdicate the responsibility. Leaders abdicate responsibility. You could go as far as—you’re in a marriage, and you want to shortcut the conversation you need to have to get on the same page, because you’re too tired from work. Or you don’t know how to navigate your emotions and your spouse’s emotions.

I just think there’s even a little principle here about the type of leadership that is required to move toward the conflict. To move toward and fight for clarity.

Because to avoid it is only to prolong what’s going to happen anyway.

Skin in the Game: The Cost of Deception

Insecurity

Jim: Yeah, I think there’s a perceived insecurity going on on both sides of that equation. When you lean into a relationship trying to clarify, it can sound like you’re insecure.

Yet, if you don’t lean in, are you not practicing insecurity? Because you’re afraid it could turn into something—afraid of how it might go—or you could simply be afraid of being viewed as insecure.

Humility, and the Price of Clarity

And so, you know, you stated earlier about humility. I think that’s at play here.

What I think is interesting, too, that we can add to this, Winston, is—
In banking, studies have proven this time and time again: if you buy your house with 0% down, the possibility of that house going into foreclosure is higher than if you have an FHA loan.

I don’t know what FHA asks for anymore—when I was younger it was like 3% down or something—but you still had to put some money in the game.

And somebody who’s buying a house through FHA—even though that may not be a lot of money—it’s a lot of money to them. And so the defaulting on FHA loans is lower than with 100% financing.

But then, if you put 10% down, or 20% down—the more you put down, the greater the odds that the loan gets paid on time and paid off. So when I see Abraham giving the livestock over, I kind of see that as a pledge. I see it as skin in the game, so to speak.

When Power Dynamics Shift the Negotiation

Because, naturally speaking, if you put it on paper, Abimelek could wipe out Abraham and his group. Maybe not—Abraham’s got a winning battle record. And obviously, Abimelek knows that there’s this God named Yahweh on his side, so he doesn’t want to deal with that.

But if you’re just talking about human benefit—this whole thing ends with the king pointing out to Abraham, “Remember, you’re the foreigner.”

It’s almost like he let that hang there. Like, mind your manners or something.

Which I think Abraham does. I think he confronts it—in relationship, which is what we’re talking about. But he also gives this down payment. It seems to me—using today’s terminology—that it’s a pledge.

That makes sense. At first, when I read it, I thought, “Okay, well the king’s coming to him, why is he giving livestock?”

Well, not only does he give him livestock for the oath, but then he gives him livestock for him to pledge, “You and I agree—I dug this well. It belongs to me.”

So he pays again for the well.

Deception Costs You More

Winston: Which I noted—and I thought about it—and I had to kind of run back to the previous interactions that they had. And I was wondering—was Abraham so insecure about his deception prior to this interaction? Because he lied about him and his wife—the whole thing—and it almost cost Abimelek. God was going to kill him and all that.

And so now, in my notes, I just kind of wrote:
“Deception costs you more.”

It was seven more that he ends up giving, just to say, “Hey, I need you to affirm my credibility here. I dug that well.” Apparently, my word is not enough—because I’m now known as a deceiver. And that’s part of the conversation even now. Abimelek says, “Don’t deceive me again.” He’s like, “You’ve already lied to me before.”

And so just that idea—that Abraham already created this reputation based on his manipulation tactics previously.

Being a Foreigner: In the World, But Not of It

The Tree and the Tension: Marking a Foreign Land

Jim: Yeah, that’s great. Even though this seems to be a short section—and almost kind of like out of place—the more we talk about it, it’s actually very interesting and helpful, isn’t it?

What do you make of this whole thing where Abraham plants a tree? I mean, I guess that’s a physical reminder—since livestock doesn’t stick around, right? So I guess that’s what that is. It’s kind of like a seal on a letter—boom, here’s the tree.

But what do you make of this comment:
“And Abraham lived as a foreigner in Philistine country for a long time”?

It’s an interesting way to close the story.

Sojourners in Every Season: A Call to Discomfort

Winston: Yeah. You know, just all that it took to be obviously not of the land. I think there’s a tension there.

They have to come to an agreement to even make this happen. But how do you live in a land that’s not your own? How do you live in a culture that’s not yours? How do you stay committed to your culture well? And how do you do that well?

I think that’s what’s implied here. And that echoes to the New Testament—and to our modern day. We’re called to be sojourners. Once again: in the world, but not of it.

And that is not an easy task.

There’s so much about life in general—and then you can drill down and get granular. Whether it’s a city you live in—you love where you live, but maybe God calls you to a different assignment or a different opportunity—and you’re grappling with, “Man, I don’t want to leave this place.”

To the general idea of being so fixated on the things of this world and this life—and the way that you can, quote-unquote, “be fulfilled” or “be satisfied” by money, or power, or status. It can get that grandiose, or it can get super granular. But I think there’s this constant tension of choosing to be a foreigner—choosing not to take root in a place you were never meant to be forever.

God’s Individual Call: One Faith, Many Journeys

Jim: Yeah. You know, I think our walk with God has taught us a couple things.

One is—God is going to stretch us. That would be a general principle. He’s going to stretch us.

But He can use the same topic to stretch us in different ways from person to person.

For example, some people want to move away because they think if they move, their life will be better. So they run from their situation—just to find themselves there.

Whereas other people really love where they are—and God calls them. Soo in the first example, God says, “No, you need to stay. Stay here. Work this out. Fight through this.” Or other people love where they live—and they can never imagine leaving their home and family—and yet God calls them to take on something new, and to move in that way.

I think it’s important for us to realize that this is how God works. Ultimately, Scripture makes it clear—He wants to see us grow into the image and likeness of Christ. That’s the general principle.

The way He does that, though, is very individualistic.

And that’s where the relationship comes in.

He has a relationship with His bride as a whole, and He deals with His bride in a certain consistent way.

And yet, as individual members of His house, He knows who we are—and He knows how to lead us.

And I think in Abraham’s case, God just kept taking him along.

Conclusion and Next Week’s Topic (Genesis 22)

Well, I think that’s a great place to stop.

I want to remind all of you listening and participating in the Genesis Project—tell other people about it if you’re enjoying it.

I would encourage you to go right from the first one—go back to Genesis chapter 1 if you haven’t listened before, or if you’re encouraging others to join. Start from Genesis 1.

We’re stacking up quite a great inventory.

It might be a great way to walk through Genesis in a way you’ve never done before.

Now, next time, we’re going to be in Genesis 22, which might be one of the most disturbing passages in all of Scripture—at least from my perspective.

I’ve always struggled with this story—of God leading Abraham to sacrifice his promised son.

From a human elevation, this has—and still is—difficult for me to understand.

So hopefully we’ll get the whole crew together and talk about this next time.

Winston, thanks a lot for helping me with this section. Appreciate it.

Outro

Winston: Hey, thank you so much for joining us on the Today Counts Show.

We’ve got so much more planned for you. So stay tuned and stay connected on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook—and subscribe on YouTube.
—————————–